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Post by randy on Aug 15, 2017 18:18:29 GMT -6
Hmmm... Glenn asked me to get on here and help with a little history...hmm... Most of the bulls above make me think it is a good thing they are history.. I liked 15G calves some at Split Butte... 107H had a good grandson in SBR Marathon Man 257t...
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Post by randy on Aug 15, 2017 18:21:16 GMT -6
BT Future Roundup was a range bull machine... One of the few polled bulls of the day that you could turn his sons out on cheat and lava rocks and they would come home alive...
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Post by randy on Aug 15, 2017 18:24:54 GMT -6
LHR L1 Domino 244  I'd like to see some pics of some Mark Piegan cattle. This bull in the picture goes on the bottom side to a Mark Piegan 13 who is sired by a Piegan Prince 77. To tie that to my herd, one of my best cow families goes on the cow line to a double bred Mark Piegan 17, Mark Piegan 17 was also sired by Piegan Prince 77. Byde and Fritz Lamey had Piegan cattle... Phillips Creek Ranch Eureka MT |
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Post by Glenn on Aug 15, 2017 18:45:00 GMT -6
So our 'Canadian Breeders' don't start feeling left ou.  |
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Post by Glenn on Aug 15, 2017 18:54:00 GMT -6
CL 1 Domino 8015  |
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Post by randy on Aug 15, 2017 19:08:25 GMT -6
 C1 DOMINO 8015 |
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Aug 16, 2017 6:19:36 GMT -6
Traditional Hereford Crown Robert 2nd.  |
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Aug 16, 2017 12:55:58 GMT -6
8015 MCK Command  |
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Post by sjarman on Aug 16, 2017 16:18:48 GMT -6
8015 MCK Command That's a bull I'd use. Probably a long shot but anyone have any semen on him? |
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Aug 17, 2017 12:49:00 GMT -6
VJR TEX ONWARD (1970)  GRAND SLAM(1974)  |
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Post by oldduffer on Aug 20, 2017 13:47:19 GMT -6
Nice to see Grand Slam once again. If I remember correctly he is the result of a brother/sister cross!
"Let's make Herefords GREAT again!!!!!!!"
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Aug 20, 2017 15:39:23 GMT -6
Nice to see Grand Slam once again. If I remember correctly he is the result of a brother/sister cross!
"Let's make Herefords GREAT again!!!!!!!" Yes.  |
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Post by woodford on Aug 20, 2017 21:23:40 GMT -6
While, I am unfamiliar with Grand Slam and have no idea of how good he was, I'd like to comment on his pedigree, because it relates to a comment from the Sire/Daughter thread where someone mentioned the Art of breeding as opposed to the Science of breeding.
When you read Grand Slam's pedigree, you do find that he is from a half brother to half sister mating, which is effective linebreeding that can produce very good results.
It is the pedigrees of the 2 grand dams that I find interesting. The paternal grand dam AA CAROL DOMINO 206 (12098826) is line bred top and bottom to different lines, with Battle Intense on top and Astor breeding on the bottom. The maternal grand dam, DUNNS ETHEL INT 72X (15789924) at first seems little linebred, but follows a lot of Prince Domino breeding, some Bocaldo which is Hazlett breeding, and some Battle Intense breeding too.
If I have my facts right, then these two cows that seem unrelated are actually both full of Gudgell and Simpson or similar breeding and have a lot of relationship to each other, but a bit further back and on a broader scale, maybe, than the Big Northern breeding.
Big Northern has some of this breeding too, but he also has what I am guessing is about 1/3 or more English breeding that was imported in about the 1950's to 1960's. My opinion is that this actually makes Big Northern the outcross even though he is twice in the pedigree and up front.
Pedigrees like this are what I would call the ART of breeding and it was built up over many decades of the work of many Artful breeders, in this case using both line breeding and outcrossing. I might be wrong, but I think that the science of breeding using numbers only is attractive because it seems to make breeding easier to do, and also that we as breeders can get into a lot of trouble that way, quickly. Again, I make no opinion of the qualities of the bull Grand Slam; but would like to say that while the Art of breeding can be difficult to do and it doesn't always work, but when it does work, it works really well.
Woodford
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Post by George on Aug 21, 2017 8:33:31 GMT -6
GRAND SLAM(1974) I saw Grand Slam at a Field Day held at Granite Hills in the mid 70s. He was an impressive individual...dark, dark red that made the ample chrome that he sported really stand out. Phenotype wise, he was the right kind and size...and better than most that are being produced today. BUT I would consider Grand Slam to be a bit of disappointment as a breeding bull. The only son of his that I can remember was the one that K State used for a while. I think he did sire a few daughters that were good cows. Perhaps his lack of success as a breeding bull was partly due to the fact that he came along right at the front end of the frame race and Hereford breeders lost their collective minds chasing frame size at the expense of all other traits and good all around bulls, like Grand Slam, were ignorred because they didn't have enough "air" under them. |
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Post by bltherf on Aug 21, 2017 13:01:56 GMT -6
I would be interested to know how the daughters were. When at first I saw a 1974 born bull has teat and udder suspension scores I was a bit dubious. They are low accuracies but I guess these figures are based on later priduced daughters , granddaughters, etc. Does that correlate to how he actually bred? Have no experience with the bloodline but would be interested to know from those of you that had them how they actually were.
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Post by shumakerherefords on Aug 21, 2017 14:34:58 GMT -6
I only had experience with one Grand Slam grand daughter that I bought from Kstate. Her 5 calves averaged 112 pounds with one calf from Glenkirk's Rave weighing 144 pounds.
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Post by timbernt on Aug 21, 2017 17:17:11 GMT -6
Many years ago I had a client who had Big Northern sons and daughters. Pretty good phenotype if you had the guts to stay in the pen long enough to look. Probably worse than the 85B's and he was terrible. When an animal arches their neck, you should figure they are about to explode. The 85B's often had nice udders, the Big Northern daughters were as bad as they get and I never saw a good udder on one.
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Post by woodford on Aug 21, 2017 18:44:23 GMT -6
Interesting, about 85B's temperament. Our daughters have been mostly reasonably quiet, certainly none would chase people. I don't keep that kind of cattle. It is useful to know how his offspring in other herds are.
Woodford
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Aug 22, 2017 17:43:40 GMT -6
BEAU MARK H 351 Owned by a Hereford Talk member?  |
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Post by timbernt on Aug 22, 2017 21:04:17 GMT -6
Carlos, in my search for old Mark Donald genetics I bought a semen interest in H351 from Chandlers. He is a 326 son and I have a lot of 326 genetics in some of my cattle. I have not used any H351 semen yet, I need to get it done since it will take several years to figure out how he fits.
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Post by jayh on Aug 23, 2017 21:11:04 GMT -6
Tim that looks like a bull I would use.
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Sept 3, 2017 18:18:45 GMT -6
VERN ROBERT, from he 30's I believe. Not a good picture for an important bull.  |
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Post by timbernt on Sept 3, 2017 20:06:05 GMT -6
Carlos, I did not know there was a picture of Vern Robert. You are certainly right about his influence.
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Sept 3, 2017 20:15:29 GMT -6
Carlos, I did not know there was a picture of Vern Robert. You are certainly right about his influence. Impressive hindquarter. |
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Post by guffeygal on Sept 4, 2017 6:32:42 GMT -6
 Vern Dermott  Vern Robert We like this picture of Vern Robert although it is probably a bit retouched but not heavily. Dad ( Orville) use to get a copy of The English Herd Bull Edition (can't remember the proper name). One year The Vern's ad was historical showing all the bulls used from Vern Robert into the 60's. Quite interesting. Par-Ker Ranch owned a semen interest in Vern Dermot. It was in the early times of A.I. and they did not get too many calves by him. Later owned an interest in Shadeland Dermot and Dermot 18th outright both of whom did them a lot of good |
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