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Post by Jobulls on Jan 21, 2019 23:16:24 GMT -6
I was on a call with a breeder from the midwest today and he had confirmed cases of Maple Syrup Urine Disease (Neuraxial Edema). I have heard a lot of discussion about Idiopathic Epilepsy on here, but not much about MSUD. I have not ran onto it in person. What is the prevalence of the defect in the AHA?
Also is the Internal Hydrocephalus (water head) in Herefords the same as Neuropathic Hydrocephalus (water head) in Angus?
I see a lot of AHA cattle with the IEF, HYF, and DLF tests results by their names, but not much on MSUD and IH? I know both are considered "Lethal" under the AHA rules. Thoughts?
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Post by timbernt on Jan 22, 2019 4:35:21 GMT -6
Hydocephalus is the same in Angus and Herefords. A simple recessive. I don't know about other strains, but it has been an unrecognized problem in Canadian Herefords when linebreeding one bull. HI Standard Lad 8Z. He was used a quite a bit in the 80's because of his growth and decent females. Flint Hills Herefords at Eureka, KS, owned an interest in him. They were good cattle other than that and the fact that they were crazy as hell. Dad always said that was a Prince Domino trait. I have never seen or heard about hydrocephalus in other Canadian Herefords.
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Post by strojanherefords on Jan 22, 2019 11:45:42 GMT -6
Hydocephalus is the same in Angus and Herefords. A simple recessive. I don't know about other strains, but it has been an unrecognized problem in Canadian Herefords when linebreeding one bull. HI Standard Lad 8Z. He was used a quite a bit in the 80's because of his growth and decent females. Flint Hills Herefords at Eureka, KS, owned an interest in him. They were good cattle other than that and the fact that they were crazy as hell. Dad always said that was a Prince Domino trait. I have never seen or heard about hydrocephalus in other Canadian Herefords. What about 93J? |
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Post by timbernt on Jan 22, 2019 11:55:35 GMT -6
I have never liked 93J and used very little of him outside of 80S. I have never heard he was a problem.
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Post by herfdog on Jan 22, 2019 12:04:33 GMT -6
Who is 93J?
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Post by Jobulls on Jan 23, 2019 16:30:38 GMT -6
It just seems that if the AHA has designated MSUD as a genetic defect, that there would be more information and discussion about it?
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Post by rockmillsherefords on Jan 23, 2019 21:28:45 GMT -6
I believe it's Standard Lad 93J he's something like the grandsire or great GS of 80S |
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Post by tartancowgirl on Jan 24, 2019 16:24:37 GMT -6
I don’t know if there have been any cases here but Standard Lad 93J semen was very popular in UK in the eighties - the HCS lists 337 progeny here.
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Post by bltherf on Jan 24, 2019 22:58:36 GMT -6
I don’t know if there have been any cases here but Standard Lad 93J semen was very popular in UK in the eighties - the HCS lists 337 progeny here. Used him AI many years ago. Big boned Jim Hole bred bull. Threw a lot of bone and volume Also s lot of white markings! Turned out to be in a lot of Canadian pedigrees , but then he did get to work on lots of the better cows of the day And no have never heard of any hydrocephalus problems in his prodgeny |
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Post by rockmillsherefords on Jan 27, 2019 21:35:10 GMT -6
Standard Lad 93J  |
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Post by bltherf on Jan 29, 2019 16:00:38 GMT -6
Remember when he and 95J sold in Calgary many years ago. Brought a lot of money for the time the pair of them. 95J May have left a better legacy , right Tim? |
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Post by rockmillsherefords on Jan 29, 2019 18:30:31 GMT -6
Standard Lad 95J  |
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Post by timbernt on Jan 29, 2019 18:32:02 GMT -6
Byron, I always thought 95J left better descendents, especially his daughters bred to 80S. I always thought 93J cattle were hard keepers and not very useful in tough conditions. Having said that, one of the more impressive bulls I have seen was Ed Fox's 2N bull who was a 93J son. But, Ed is a good caretaker and has no fescue.
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Post by timbernt on Jan 30, 2019 6:49:24 GMT -6
I do have a lot of 95J influence thru the Beatch cattle. Byron, you can tell me if I am wrong but I think Ken is the one who sold him to Ochs. Of the 3 most popular Jim Hole bulls of the time I think 43K was the best. I have 95J in the tank, doubt I will use it. If so, just to get a heifer bull. All in all, those bulls would not match what is available today if you will buy a few plane tickets to go look.
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Post by rockmillsherefords on Jan 30, 2019 13:10:35 GMT -6
Stanmore 43K   |
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Post by bltherf on Jan 30, 2019 19:28:37 GMT -6
 Used this son of 43K back in the 80,s. That was a great line of big, thick high volumne cattle that many still dream of today. I know the bulls were very easy to sell to ranchers. They loved them However the females were not as good a females as the bulls were bulls. I think we really have made great improvements on the female side. Fun to look back and look for possible bits to add back in but just make sure you are seeing the whole picture |
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Post by timbernt on Jan 30, 2019 20:08:25 GMT -6
I totally agree. Whatever the reason, Canadian females have dramatically improved. However, in the last few years I have seen several straight L1 programs that badly need to use a 43K type bull. Just to make sure I have insulted everyone, I have not seen a herd bull in any of those herds.
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Post by Jobulls on Jan 30, 2019 23:50:27 GMT -6
It seems that everyone is focussing on Water Head. I was more wanting information on MSUD. I contacted Neogen and they can test for it as part of a 50K, but do not actually offer it as a product, so there is no way to order the MSUD test from Neogen. The same is true with Water Head, but I have heard that the Water Head cases are almost nonexistent (there is a test for the Angus variant). The MSUD is harder to recognize, because the calf cannot digest protein and dies.
Does anyone know a place that tests for MSUD, and has a way to order those tests? I am not even sure which lines the MSUD is in, and I doubt anyone else knows? I have never seen it in person, but know of a ranch in Iowa that had MSUD show up in it. I was talking to that breeder this week about how to order the tests. He ordered them through a research group.
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Post by Jobulls on Mar 7, 2019 9:06:25 GMT -6
Did everyone read the official notice on MSUD from the AHA?
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Post by fivestarherefords on Mar 7, 2019 9:35:46 GMT -6
Did everyone read the official notice on MSUD from the AHA? Yes and I just went and stocked up on popcorn! |
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Post by jjbcattleco on Mar 7, 2019 9:44:24 GMT -6
Terrible misfortune for those affected. Not a lot of margin for error in the ag industry right now and this is a kick in the shorts. Glad the Association has taken action on it. 276 known carriers is sure to rise just hope it isn't too much.
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Post by hoekland on Mar 7, 2019 10:04:56 GMT -6
It seems that everyone is focussing on Water Head. I was more wanting information on MSUD. I contacted Neogen and they can test for it as part of a 50K, but do not actually offer it as a product, so there is no way to order the MSUD test from Neogen. The same is true with Water Head, but I have heard that the Water Head cases are almost nonexistent (there is a test for the Angus variant). The MSUD is harder to recognize, because the calf cannot digest protein and dies. Does anyone know a place that tests for MSUD, and has a way to order those tests? I am not even sure which lines the MSUD is in, and I doubt anyone else knows? I have never seen it in person, but know of a ranch in Iowa that had MSUD show up in it. I was talking to that breeder this week about how to order the tests. He ordered them through a research group. I think the Angus test might work for you...🤪 |
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Post by strojanherefords on Mar 7, 2019 10:36:34 GMT -6
I wonder if the associations will identify the most recent common ancestors and not look the other way, again, when potential carriers are dumped on unsuspecting buyers.
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Post by Glenn on Mar 7, 2019 10:43:28 GMT -6
Facebook suspiciously quite this morning.
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Post by Jobulls on Mar 7, 2019 11:31:07 GMT -6
It is showing carriers in Herfnet if you run the report.
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