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Post by timbernt on Apr 25, 2015 12:05:11 GMT -6
If Ward is selected the Hereford breed will officially be nothing but a support breed for Angus and hobby farmers.
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Post by jjbcattleco on Apr 25, 2015 17:59:55 GMT -6
CEO of Angus is a Hereford breeder........
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Post by Glenn on Apr 25, 2015 18:48:08 GMT -6
Very true
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Post by timbernt on Apr 25, 2015 19:31:20 GMT -6
That could be debated.
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Post by elkwc on Apr 25, 2015 20:28:32 GMT -6
CEO of Angus is a Hereford breeder........ Whether his involvement in the hereford breed equals that of Ward and his family in the Angus world could be debated. It is the level of Ward's involvement in the Angus breed that is the problem.
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talin
Yearling
Posts: 201
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Post by talin on Apr 25, 2015 21:27:36 GMT -6
I have purposefully stayed off the boards for awhile but gee whiz you guys would turn down a gold bar if it was handed to you. I have been on a number of search committees and have peripherally seen Ward at events don't know if I could pick the guy out of group without a name tag but here are my thoughts. Angus is ahead of us seems our strong points are temperament and almost as good as Angus in the average public and commercial eye. If I was wanting to move forward I would hire someone ahead of us ie someone from Angus who was in the trenches on the rise up. The thought you have to have X generations to be in Herefords is ridiculous this isn't CAR Cattle of the American Revolution.
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Post by mrvictordomino on Apr 26, 2015 6:29:01 GMT -6
Interesting take on various points of view.... I must admit that over the years of raising Hereford cattle I do not have much knowledge of things that happen in KC. I got into this thing in 1975 when there was a movement from the smaller show cattle and then experienced the great frame race where the breed just about lost all due to show ring decisions and influences. I am not one to be influenced by trends and fads so I pay no attention to what the shows are trending to. My selection criteria is based on what works for me in my environment and to improve on it. I would like to see more emphasis place on commercial production and don't know what the breakdown is on funds being allocated to various areas, but over the years have seen the various articles and flyers available to us to promote the use of Hereford bulls in cross breeding systems. As far a Mr. Jack Ward, I have never met him in person but he has been very helpful to me on anything I needed or asked of him. If having a strong or long Hereford background is a requirement for the position available, this could eliminate some possible quality individuals that could do a very good job. Kind of like the show ring dictating what people use leaving some very good bulls in the dust. ( I do not have a clue who would be best for this position but just keeping an open mind, would like to know who applied though )
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 20:07:39 GMT -6
There isn't much to debate actually. Just because Bryce Schumann sold himself out of the Schu-Lar operation he still was a Hereford breeder and probably still has some Herefords I bet. In fact he took the Angus job in 2008, Schu-Lar dispersed in 2010 although they definitely are still in the Hereford business because Stan Larson just sold 11 bulls under the Schu-Lar name on a bull test with Jerry Huth and Beef Resources Partnership earlier this month. While everyone knew the dispersal probably had to do with Bryce being the Angus CEO they claimed Stan wanted to get out of the business yet ironically the cattle being sold under the Schu-Lar name today it's Stan's name but you have to think that the Schumann's are still involved in some capacity. One of the bulls sold was out of an active 2010 born dam that is a DOD that just happens to have Bryce's daughter listed as the current owner when I looked up the pedigree. Draw your own conclusions from that...
Just like mrvictordomino said, to limit the candidate pool to just those who have Hereford breeding background could be leaving out some well qualified candidates. Even more ironic as much as some have voiced their concerns about marketing to the commercial breeder wouldn't you want to consider someone that has experience with more than just Herefords to bring in some different perspectives? It doesn't matter who they pick as the new EVP, I doubt any of us are going to change the way we run our programs just because of who is the new leader at AHA.
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Post by elkwc on Apr 27, 2015 4:47:10 GMT -6
In my opinion if you want to seek someone from the current hot breed who is doing things to attract the commercial man it would be someone from the Red Angus breed. You hear everywhere how their goals are so much more in align with what a commercial breeder wants and needs to be competitive. The Angus association has its troubles now. That is one reason you are seeing so many bulls of other breeds showing up now. Not only is Mr Ward an Angus breeder he is a show world believer. Again I don't feel being a copy cat is going to help the Hereford association. They need someone that is loyal and dedicated to the breed willing to try some new ideas. That is what the RA has done is the past. They didn't copy the BA they went their own way. And for those that feel you are eliminating some qualified person by not hiring a devoted Angus breeder I guess you would be fine with considering a qualified vegetarian?
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Post by mehf on Apr 27, 2015 7:23:38 GMT -6
In my opinion if you want to seek someone from the current hot breed who is doing things to attract the commercial man it would be someone from the Red Angus breed. You hear everywhere how their goals are so much more in align with what a commercial breeder wants and needs to be competitive. The Angus association has its troubles now. That is one reason you are seeing so many bulls of other breeds showing up now. Not only is Mr Ward an Angus breeder he is a show world believer. Again I don't feel being a copy cat is going to help the Hereford association. They need someone that is loyal and dedicated to the breed willing to try some new ideas. That is what the RA has done is the past. They didn't copy the BA they went their own way. And for those that feel you are eliminating some qualified person by not hiring a devoted Angus breeder I guess you would be fine with considering a qualified vegetarian? Right on the money, elkwc !!!
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Post by oldduffer on Apr 27, 2015 11:45:27 GMT -6
Those of us who hope OUR association will have a greater focus on the REAL cattle business need to stop and ask one question.
Question: Who punches the secretary's lunch ticket? Answer: The board of directors.
Until OUR board of directors places a greater level of importance on the R-E-A-L cattle business there will be no change!
"Extremism to protect liberty is no vice!"
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Post by mehf on Apr 27, 2015 12:40:13 GMT -6
Those of us who hope OUR association will have a greater focus on the REAL cattle business need to stop and ask one question. Question: Who punches the secretary's lunch ticket? Answer: The board of directors. Until OUR board of directors places a greater level of importance on the R-E-A-L cattle business there will be no change! "Extremism to protect liberty is no vice!" Good point oldduffer. And, as a follow-on; Hereford cattlemen (and cattlewomen too ...) from all points on the Hereford compass today, best start contacting all of the AHA Board members and share with each concerns and fears should Jack Ward be selected as the next EVP.
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Post by timbernt on Apr 27, 2015 20:02:44 GMT -6
I do not debate whether Schumann owns Hereford cattle. I question that he is a breeder. And that is the crux of this current debate about Ward and the leadership of the AHA. The July, 1977, issue of the Hereford Journal contained 1031 pages. That was just Horned breeders. If you will read it from cover to cover, you will see hundreds of breeders producing the type of bulls commercial cattlemen still want today and yet are very hard to find in the Hereford breed now. For those of us that think the only reason to breed Herefords is to make a better animal for the commercial industry it is hard to be politically correct and not voice our opinion that our breed is on the wrong track. The Hereford discount in the market place proves our breed is not on the right course. In the last year the red discount has evaporated. The Hereford discount remains. As long as we stay the course we are on, the industry will continue to discount Herefords. The reason people like me seem radical is that we are painfully aware of the stakes and I am convinced time is not on our side.
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Post by Glenn on Apr 27, 2015 20:45:59 GMT -6
You're depressing me, Tim!
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Post by timbernt on Apr 27, 2015 20:48:05 GMT -6
Glenn, aren't you a master of the dismal science?
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Post by Glenn on Apr 27, 2015 20:58:48 GMT -6
I had 9 hours of economics in college so I'm just an amateur economist.
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Post by timbernt on Apr 27, 2015 21:18:15 GMT -6
You are darn sure a good enough economist to know that if you are selling fewer pounds at a discount that you won't be the one buying the neighbors' farm when it comes up for sale! So why are we as an association continuing to elect and hire people whose economic survival has never been based on production agriculture?
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AHA News
Apr 29, 2015 5:57:11 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Sudsy on Apr 29, 2015 5:57:11 GMT -6
For those of you who may be interested, here in Australia our current CEO, John Mc.Kew, was the CEO of Mars Confectionery prior to his appointment with Hereford Australia.
I can only imagine he was appointed for his expertise in marketing, his actual cattle knowledge was very/quite limited at the time.
Has it been successful? I guess so, herefords appear to be reining in Angus, and he is still employed, thus the majority of members must be satisfied.
I am led to believe the man he beat for the post was the former head of Angus Australia.
Maybe others with more inside knowledge can enlighten us as to the wisdom or not of the decision.
All in all, I think the future looks fairly good for herefords here. Most Hereford breeders I know are not attempting to emulate angus, they are concentrating on breeding good, solid, honest cattle. There is a chance/possibility that angus breeders themselves are by far and away the greatest threat to the angus breed. Given sufficient time and arrogance, they will possibly do their level best to ruin/destroy any advantage they may currently enjoy.
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Post by Glenn on Apr 29, 2015 6:24:01 GMT -6
There is a chance/possibility that angus breeders themselves are by far and away the greatest threat to the angus breed. Given sufficient time and arrogance, they will possibly do their level best to ruin/destroy any advantage they may currently enjoy. I believe that is what is happening to Angus here. That's why I understand Tim's frustration, but am not quite as gloomy, because I think the Angus breed is in serious self-inflicted trouble.
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Post by mehf on Apr 29, 2015 9:13:02 GMT -6
For those of you who may be interested, here in Australia our current CEO, John Mc.Kew, was the CEO of Mars Confectionery prior to his appointment with Hereford Australia. I can only imagine he was appointed for his expertise in marketing, his actual cattle knowledge was very/quite limited at the time. Has it been successful? I guess so, herefords appear to be reining in Angus, and he is still employed, thus the majority of members must be satisfied. I am led to believe the man he beat for the post was the former head of Angus Australia. Maybe others with more inside knowledge can enlighten us as to the wisdom or not of the decision. All in all, I think the future looks fairly good for herefords here. Most Hereford breeders I know are not attempting to emulate angus, they are concentrating on breeding good, solid, honest cattle. There is a chance/possibility that angus breeders themselves are by far and away the greatest threat to the angus breed. Given sufficient time and arrogance, they will possibly do their level best to ruin/destroy any advantage they may currently enjoy. You have many, many good points here, Sudsy. Yes, I would take as the EVP of the AHA an executive from the confectionary industry, or anyone else from any industry, who has a solid marketing background and a sincere interest in the continued resurgence of the Hereford Breed for that matter. Yes, anyone but Jack Ward!
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Post by mehf on Apr 29, 2015 9:14:41 GMT -6
There is a chance/possibility that angus breeders themselves are by far and away the greatest threat to the angus breed. Given sufficient time and arrogance, they will possibly do their level best to ruin/destroy any advantage they may currently enjoy. I believe that is what is happening to Angus here. That's why I understand Tim's frustration, but am not quite as gloomy, because I think the Angus breed is in serious self-inflicted trouble. Good (no GREAT) news Glenn !!
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Post by oldduffer on Apr 29, 2015 10:38:31 GMT -6
I've been waiting for someone like Sudsy to suggest thinking outside the box. CEO of Mars Candy; sounds like an excellent choice. The AHA needs to hire John Meyer CEO of Holstein USA. Just look at the things Holstein USA has accomplished since he became CEO.
Please don't suggest he is out of our price range. When you pay peanuts all you ever hire is monkeys!
"Extremism to protect liberty is no vice."
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Post by bookcliff on Apr 29, 2015 18:56:58 GMT -6
In my opinion if you want to seek someone from the current hot breed who is doing things to attract the commercial man it would be someone from the Red Angus breed. twig's a good man
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Post by George on Apr 29, 2015 22:07:53 GMT -6
Jack Ward's column in the newest HW sure made me much less of a fan.
Reliability? Pfffftt!
Fear not, OZ! The wizard is hard at work.
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Post by elkwc on Apr 30, 2015 4:43:41 GMT -6
Jack Ward's column in the newest HW sure made me much less of a fan. Reliability? Pfffftt! Fear not, OZ! The wizard is hard at work. George it seems that those at the top are totally out of touch with reality and the commercial breeder. It is becoming more evident that the individual polled breeder will have to go it alone wihout any support from the Assoicaion if they want to be relevant to the commercial breeder.
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