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Post by timbernt on Apr 19, 2015 19:57:40 GMT -6
I thought the same for many years, but in just the last year I have started to think those who people who don't think individual breeders have the resources to compete may be correct. Just think how many people have called you in the last year wanting 5 to 10 or more bulls. If we are to compete with the composites and consortiums in producing what commercial customers need, it may be impossible to go it alone in the future. And why should we have to? We should at least be able to go to the Hereford World and see what fellow breeders are doing. Instead, it has become so irrelevant that none of are willing to waste the money advertising in it. When did any of us on this forum spend the money to buy an ad big enough to picture our herd bulls or describe our breeding program? If we do it is just to massage our own egos, not because we expect Hereford World readers to respond to real world cattle.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 20:44:54 GMT -6
I thought the same for many years, but in just the last year I have started to think those who people who don't think individual breeders have the resources to compete may be correct. Just think how many people have called you in the last year wanting 5 to 10 or more bulls. If we are to compete with the composites and consortiums in producing what commercial customers need, it may be impossible to go it alone in the future. And why should we have to? We should at least be able to go to the Hereford World and see what fellow breeders are doing. Instead, it has become so irrelevant that none of are willing to waste the money advertising in it. When did any of us on this forum spend the money to buy an ad big enough to picture our herd bulls or describe our breeding program? If we do it is just to massage our own egos, not because we expect Hereford World readers to respond to real world cattle. I'm not good enough to look at a few pictures in an ad and tell what kind of program that breeder has. As for what fellow breeders are doing, we go on the state tours and have visited other ranches to look at their whole program. I want to see cattle in person, not some photo shopped picture. I think we have a pretty good idea on what breeders are raising cattle geared towards the commercial cattlemen. In fact, the situation you described just happened last week and has happened in the past. A guy called up wanting 3-4 bulls, we only had one left. Bob gave him the numbers of some other breeders to contact. Don't know if he contacted any of them or not, but gave him some leads. We have done this often and have had fellow breeders do the same for us. Similar cattle being raised in similar conditions. Don't know if this happens in other areas, but it does around here. We have had far more success advertising in regional cattle magazines and regional ag papers than we have had in breed association tabloids.
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Post by bookcliff on Apr 19, 2015 20:49:02 GMT -6
George, this is one time you need to be take to the woodshed. I have no hatred for Ward. What I have is total disgust that our director of breed improvement has a background in academia and the showring and managing purebred operations. We are in a rapidly evolving industry and our association is being led by purebred breeders and academics using fictional EPD's to distort the fact that the Herefords that need to be propagated are the ones the commercial man wants. 5 days ago I had a call from a breeder asking about an AI bull I am using. I told him I am concerned there won't be enough performance (mass or growth). His reply that since the bull has a 120 yearling EPD he had plenty of both. Yesterday there was a livestock market owner here from Arkansas. He saw the same thing I did. Why aren't we listening to those guys instead of academics? I am beginning to think any purebred breeder that doesn't have a commercial base is likely to be pretty off track. entirely right on the mark Tim
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 11:31:29 GMT -6
Well I had a response all typed out and then clicked on a wrong button and lost it all so maybe it was an omen that I needed to re-think how I was going to say it... I don't think that it's going out on a limb to say that regardless who is chosen as the new EVP a lot of folks here will have issue with the person regardless who it is and what their background is. I think too many people are getting a little butt hurt over this person needs to be "one of our own" in a sense that if they don't have a big Hereford background or name behind them that that automatically means they aren't qualified.
I doubt Criag Huffhines has ever raised or shown quarter horses so they must be making a big mistake hiring him too right? Heck if you look at Criag's background he has a master's from Colorado State, joined AHA in 1992 with the CHB program, transitioned to the director of CHB in 1995, and became EVP Sept of 1997. That is a pretty fast track to becoming EVP. I grew up in a family where my dad has basically been an "association junkie" working for the American Polled Hereford Association, National Pork Producers and Pork Board where he was the EVP of the pork board for many years and is about to retire as Executive Director of an ag organization that certifies animal auditors for about any type of animal you can send to the packing plant. We never had a pig on the farm, heck never a chicken or dairy cow or whatever either other than our herd of Herefords. If you did your research into a lot of the heads of theses big ag associations and organizations you'll probably find that most of them have minimal to no background actually raising what they are a part of.
To say someone like Jack Ward is not qualified because of his Angus background and academia is just nonsense because you can probably find similar backgrounds if you researched most association's EVP. Jack has been working for the HEREFORDS since 2003. If you have any kinds of doubt about his commitment after 12 years of service to the Hereford breed then that's just being narrow minded IMO. Now if you want to say he's biased to the show ring segment of the breed and is not in tune with the seedstock operations even side of the operations even though he spent 16 years managing seedstock operations (yes I know more Angus background there...) then that is fair game to debate that. But from a character and leadership standpoint as well as experience within AHA I think he is well qualified and depending on how one defines what role the EVP plays in the breed those are traits that are certainly going to get you consideration for the job. I'm curious just how many here have even met the man and had conversations with him or are just going off what they have read or heard about him.
I'm sure someone will tear me apart for saying that but I've got thick skin to handle it. It is what it is just another person's opinion just like everyone else has stated theirs already. Like I said to start off I'm sure whoever they choose even if it is not Jack there will probably be grumbling here about it.
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Post by jayh on Apr 20, 2015 12:27:39 GMT -6
Going to keep out of it. I had something typed but I erased it.
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Post by okherefords on Apr 20, 2015 12:42:01 GMT -6
My point is bringing up the issue is how committed are you if you go to work at the AHA during the day and go home and promote another breed. Is the day job merely to support your true interest and how committed are you to the breed you are working for. How can you truely convice someone the value of Herefords if you are running black cows and promoting that breed. Are you committed to GM if you drive a Ford every day to work at the GM plant?
I see nothing wrong with someone having other interests in their personal time. However, if they are the EVP of that Breed that makes you the face of that breed, and what you do outside of your day job does have an impact on your effectivness communicating the message.
I agree we can all find an issue with whomever is selected, hopefully the individual can keep us moving forward and re-direct our focus towards beef production and the commercial cattlemen.
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Post by okherefords on Apr 20, 2015 12:42:24 GMT -6
My point is bringing up the issue is how committed are you if you go to work at the AHA during the day and go home and promote another breed. Is the day job merely to support your true interest and how committed are you to the breed you are working for. How can you truely convice someone the value of Herefords if you are running black cows and promoting that breed. Are you committed to GM if you drive a Ford every day to work at the GM plant?
I see nothing wrong with someone having other interests in their personal time. However, if they are the EVP of that Breed that makes you the face of that breed, and what you do outside of your day job does have an impact on your effectivness communicating the message.
I agree we can all find an issue with whomever is selected, hopefully the individual can keep us moving forward and re-direct our focus towards beef production and the commercial cattlemen.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 21:21:53 GMT -6
I don't care if the new EVP is Frosty The Snowman, as long as they are 100% committed to Certified Hereford Beef, and understand the CHB program must continue to grow. In addition, the new EVP must do everything possible to keep the main focus on the commercial industry. The commercial industry is what pays the bills, not the window dressing. The overwhelming majority of Hereford bulls sold today are going into black cowherds, and the ranchers buying these bulls have no idea who won Denver, KC, Fort Worth or Louisville. Furthermore, they do not care. So in the end, most of the people who actually care about the show ring, are the show jocks, and the handful of johns who have been blinded by the light.
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Post by guffeygal on Apr 21, 2015 6:15:20 GMT -6
While I agree with most of you that I would like to see someone with a commercial cattleman mentality get the job, we all know the likelihood of that happening is small. And looking at the big picture, I don't see how it is going to have a huge impact on the beef industry either way. Now, while I would like to see the AHA spend more of its time and resources (some of our money) on things other than the puff and fluff, as I have said before, I am not going to use too much time and energy fighting that fight anymore. And if you have been in this thing very long or done your homework, this mentality with the national organizations has been going on for decades. Look thru herd bull issues and compare pictures of the highly promoted bulls from the 40's thru the 90's if you don't believe me. And in spite of all that crap, the BREED has survived. There have been, currently are, and will continue to be good Hereford breeders and cattle out there. Cattle that folks in KC or those who only select their genetics from the AI catalog or herd bull issue don't know about. And those breeders have been doing it without any or very little help from the AHA. And have been pretty successful over the years to boot, selling good seedstock into commercial herds in all regions of the US. Some of those folks are on this very forum, and they are just a few of the ones spread across this country. I am not going to pout, cry, or sell out because of something that happens in KC(well I may get ticked off for a while, but I am getting better about that). Looking back over the past 10 years of customers, I can only think of one that made any mention of the AHA or getting info from KC. For us right now, the AHA just isn't that relevant to our program and the commercial cattle people we sell to. Tom K is right, if you are needing to rely on the AHA or your state organizations to get you cattle sold, you are doing something wrong. And if you are relying on the AHA or your state associations to help you pick your genetics, well good luck with that outcome too. As a wise old, very successful breeder once said, "Give me my registration papers and stay the hell out of my way". In spite of the efforts of some, the Hereford BREED will survive because of its survival and performance traits in many different environments. Certainly agree ! It would be great for breeders like us if "The Commercial Industry" could be The Main Focus of The AHA, but I suspect the best we can hope for is a Balanced Approach and receive our piece of The Pie. Like it or not it probably goes back to Guy Shull's "Golden Rule" (Those who have The Gold(Spend The Advertising $ ) make the rules). It would be nice to go back to the good old days of an AHA Fieldman plus a Hereford World Fieldman But that is Ancient History.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 7:14:35 GMT -6
I don't care if the new EVP is Frosty The Snowman, as long as they are 100% committed to Certified Hereford Beef, and understand the CHB program must continue to grow. In addition, the new EVP must do everything possible to keep the main focus on the commercial industry. The commercial industry is what pays the bills, not the window dressing. The overwhelming majority of Hereford bulls sold today are going into black cowherds, and the ranchers buying these bulls have no idea who won Denver, KC, Fort Worth or Louisville. Furthermore, they do not care. So in the end, most of the people who actually care about the show ring, are the show jocks, and the handful of johns who have been blinded by the light. That's a good take there. What I do find ironic though is this thread a year ago when there was a black/commercial cow on the cover of Hereford World that raised a big stink here when the intent was to cater to the commercial cattlemen. Never a dull moment at HT, someone is always unhappy about something...
herefordtalk.com/thread/1896/hereford-world
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Post by George on Apr 21, 2015 7:55:47 GMT -6
Wonder what happened to jerseymike?
Here is a question for all. Is there someone who is/was a Hereford breeder and/or ranch manager that you could recommend for the EVP job?
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Post by bltherf on Apr 21, 2015 12:23:52 GMT -6
Tim Bernt. Bring some political correctness back to the position
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Post by larso on Apr 21, 2015 12:51:09 GMT -6
Being reading with interest this thread and obviously have no idea about the personal you guys are talking about, but what is plain to me is it is a very narrow field from which your selecting your candidate from. Look outside the square, he doesn't have to be a Hereford man or an ex breeder, what he has to be is a smart, intelligent successful business man who has runs on the board in the area of promotion and marketing etc. He'll be lest likely to be influenced by personal, trends and the rest of the things you guys are worried about. It is the same out here, the board is made up of breeders and being a breeder doesn't qualify you for being the right man for the job! Cattle breeding whether stud or commercial is a business and that is the field where should be looking for your man. IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 14:08:07 GMT -6
I doubt most of us even have much of an idea exactly who is under consideration. The only obvious name we can assume that is in the candidate pool is Jack because they named him interim EVP and basically being the #2 man at AHA but other than that unless someone has good inside sources with the board and committee heading up the search any other serious candidates are probably a mystery to most of us right now. I'd bet that there were non-Hereford and probably even non-cattle people from other associations that submitted applications for the position. We just need to trust that once the process is complete they've done their due diligence and selected the right person for the job and that very well could be someone with no Hereford background. I think the definition of what the EVP is means something different for everyone here but really it's mostly a leadership and administrative position.
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Post by mehf on Apr 21, 2015 15:30:00 GMT -6
SPH, I like your point above "with no Hereford background" and it represents a much more better outlook for the Hereford breed and the Hereford industry than and the individual (whose name you mentioned) who has an in-depth angus background.
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Post by strojanherefords on Apr 21, 2015 16:44:43 GMT -6
Wonder what happened to jerseymike? Here is a question for all. Is there someone who is/was a Hereford breeder and/or ranch manager that you could recommend for the EVP job? I nominate Glenn Chitwood.
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Post by George on Apr 21, 2015 17:18:31 GMT -6
Wonder what happened to jerseymike? Here is a question for all. Is there someone who is/was a Hereford breeder and/or ranch manager that you could recommend for the EVP job? I nominate Glenn Chitwood. Hell, my polled show cattle would become worthless overnight if THAT happened! LOL
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 20:38:24 GMT -6
SPH, I like your point above "with no Hereford background" and it represents a much more better outlook for the Hereford breed and the Hereford industry than and the individual (whose name you mentioned) who has an in-depth angus background. I have faith that whoever is chosen to be the next EVP will be a good selection. Our breed is in a great spot right now and the EVP position should bring in some well qualified candidates. I just hope that whoever is chosen that the breeders here will back that person because the only way we continue to move the Hereford breed forward is by working together and not against each other.
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Post by randy on Apr 22, 2015 9:28:45 GMT -6
I nominate Glenn Chitwood. Hell, my polled show cattle would become worthless overnight if THAT happened! LOL George?...ROFL.... Would that be a bad thing?..... At least we can laugh with each now.... there was a time a line in the sand was drawn..
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Post by George on Apr 22, 2015 9:43:19 GMT -6
Hell, my polled show cattle would become worthless overnight if THAT happened! LOL George?...ROFL.... Would that be a bad thing?..... At least we can laugh with each now.... there was a time a line in the sand was drawn.. LOL...I was just picking on my friend, Glenn, a little with that jab. I think the group here at HT, regardless of their horn choice, is pretty heavily oriented to the cow/calf side of the business. We don't have many show jocks and maybe just a few EPD whores who post here. And I do think the cow/calf breeders and commercial bull producers are underserved by the AHA.
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Post by okherefords on Apr 22, 2015 10:50:20 GMT -6
If you have not seen or read Baxter Black "If Herefords were black and Angus were red", it does provoke some thought on how the issues would be reversed.
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Post by mehf on Apr 22, 2015 12:17:25 GMT -6
George, Your comment about Hereford cow/calf ranchers and Hereford range bull breeders being "underserved" by the AHA is, sadly, so very true. But think for a minute if Ward becomes the next EVP for the AHA how much worse things will get. This Ward issue requires a great deal of pondering and, most important, critical comments on this matter to all of the AHA Board members.
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Post by okherefords on Apr 22, 2015 12:50:15 GMT -6
I agree with all of the above. Jack Ward could be the right person depending upon what is approach and direction is going to be and how he is going to handle his future involvement in the Angus Breed. I do run some black cattle along with my Herefords. I have noticed especially over the past 2 years the Angus breed has made an absolute push towards the entire production segment and beef segment of the industry, and seems to let everything else fall into place around it. Whoever we put in place needs to take some of the same approach in positioning the Hereford breed to maintain and gain marketshare.
Many Hereford breeders are currently capitalizing on selling Hereford bulls into black cow herds. In my view those commercial producers next cross on those baldie heifers will either be a black or red angus bull. As those operators move back to angus bulls or other breeds what impact is this going to have an the Hereford breed?
The Hereford breed now fits into alot of operations breeding plans but it is just to produce the baldie heifers for the next cross and to gain the advantage of Heterosis on the calves out of the black cows.
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Post by guffeygal on Apr 25, 2015 7:05:46 GMT -6
Hopefully a lot of ranchers will adopt the 2 breed rotation with Hereford and Angus. It is simple, they can maintain heterosis, they will still have a productive cow,and we can still have good demand for our bulls.
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Post by mehf on Apr 25, 2015 8:52:11 GMT -6
As the AHA's EVP Search Committee evaluates the background and experience of those who have applied for the EVP position to replace Craig Huffhines, I believe that it is vitally important for the committee to be aware of and give serious to consideration to the "Hereford Heritage" (or lack of such with one individual who, I believe, has applied...) of each applicant.
In addition to the responsibility of leading the AHA to provide first-class leadership and management efforts to all Hereford breeders (and, perhaps, now is time for more emphasis and support to those involved with the commercial side[cow/calf and range bull production]) in the US along with the daily management and related tasks of the headquarters in KC, there is another very important responsibility that our new EVP must be a valued participant. That is the representation and giving credible voice as to the multitude of benefits of the Hereford Breed and Hereford industry to organizations such as The National Cattlemen's Beef Association, the Beef Improvement Federation, the World Hereford Council and I am sure that there are several additional and similar beef industry promotional organizations/efforts as well.
Just think for a moment folks, relating to this one topic alone, if the AHA Board selects Jack Ward as the next EVP it would be a public relations and a credibility disaster for the Hereford Breed and the Hereford industry in the US. In addition to the AHA membership, just how much influence would Jack Ward have with the above noted organizations (and others) as he is more than a dedicated angus advocate as evidenced by his association with that breed in so many different elements over the years and up to the present time. Just plain frightening!
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