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Post by Glenn on Sept 15, 2014 15:42:41 GMT -6
Purchase a $10,000 animal?
<be as specific or vague as you like><I am just trying to gauge the thoughts of others on the topic of high priced animals>
I'll go first.
Never have
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Post by fivestarherefords on Sept 15, 2014 17:27:42 GMT -6
The most we have spent is 6000 and 5000 on two bred 2 year old cows in the same sale last fall. Neither one had a calf much better than the rest this spring but I'm hoping it's that initial adjustment phase and they will excel next year.
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Post by shumakerherefords on Sept 15, 2014 17:28:57 GMT -6
Did it back in 1983 and I am pretty certain I was bidding against Mr. Rafter.
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Post by larso on Sept 15, 2014 17:31:14 GMT -6
Purchased a cow for $36,000 once, never ever again. We never recovered our money. In this day with AI and Embryo transfers I have often wonder what you could justify paying for genetics.
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Sept 15, 2014 17:32:48 GMT -6
A different economy; in my case but highest I have paid is around $ 4.000-5.000.
Of 5 bulls, 1 was used 5 years without any problem. 2 we had leg problems after 25 days of breeding and were sold for meat. One, an About Time son, we found upon arrival that was dehorned. He was returned.
And the last one was bought a week ago in the National Show. Maybe we are lucky with him.
In that same sale the highest priced bull sold for $ 7.100 and had very bad rear legs.
My conclusion: High prices ≠ quality bulls.
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Post by George on Sept 15, 2014 17:51:45 GMT -6
The most I've actually paid was half of the $9100 that John Alexander and I paid for the worthless, no breeding, no semen producing, POS bull calf, consigned by the miscreants at Star Lake Cattle Ranch, that was sold in the Cowtown Select Sale, Fort Worth. Not that I'm bitter about it or anything!
I have bid more than that in the past - several times - but was outbid.
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Post by btlrupert on Sept 15, 2014 18:36:31 GMT -6
She would have to be REALLY good and with my wife's permission!  . Use to say $3000 to $5000 for a good to great pair... With what commercial cows are worth that is not extreme anymore ... Note, I don't buy but a couple a year.. |
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doh
Fresh Calf
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Post by doh on Sept 15, 2014 19:03:37 GMT -6
We paid $12,500 for our main donor. She had a proven track record with lots of life left. Quality of Embryologist work has a lot to do with how fast you get your money back. First calf is pretty exciting!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 19:46:34 GMT -6
Never came close to 10k purchase. Our highest purchase may be the purchase of our next herd bull this coming winter and that has more to due with the market being as high as it is right now helping drive sale prices to record highs.
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Post by kph on Sept 15, 2014 20:56:02 GMT -6
Never thought I would, but I spent 10k on a bull at Delaney's bull sale a year and a half ago, and with his first calves getting close to weaning it looks like he may have been a bargain. Usually the more I spend the worse the wreck!
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Post by oakcreekfarm on Sept 15, 2014 21:51:25 GMT -6
We bought the lot 122 cow in Kevin Schultz's sale this year she was $10,500. Time will tell. We have also bought a couple of $7,000 bulls from him.
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Post by oldduffer on Sept 19, 2014 11:23:01 GMT -6
RE: KPH Post - I'm sure Jack Delaney looked down from heaven and smiled when he saw your post. The Delaney's have raised good Herefords for many, many years. Over the years I have heard many breeders express a very high level of satisfaction for the bulls and females they have purchased there. There cattle have a reputation of "working". Keep us posted on the calves.
"I may not be right..................but I'm dam sure!"
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Post by strojanherefords on Sept 20, 2014 10:28:14 GMT -6
Last year, I spent $13,000 on 11 black cows, a year later I have one good one. Does that count?
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Post by George on Sept 20, 2014 11:16:52 GMT -6
I've probably said this here before, but in most cases, a breeder is better off AI'ing his best cows to proven bulls and raise his own herd sires, rather than spend $10,000+ on unproven yearling bulls and have about 1 in 10 truly work out. Granted, you don't get to say I've got a $100,000 Holden bred bull or a $800,000 Colyer bred bull doing that!  |
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Post by Glenn on Sept 20, 2014 15:07:56 GMT -6
I couldn't agree more, George. A breeder is much better off to pick a bull that he raised out of his better cows than to play the lotto of buying a $10,000 unproven yearling bull.
There are a couple of things that work against common sense:
1. Ego. People love to have their ego stoked by having fellow breeders see them raise their hands at certain sales. They love to see their name in the HW in the sale report. They love it that OTHERS will see their name in the HW. (Why do you think Coopers-Holdens-others have those big fancy "thank you" ads?)
2. Lack of confidence in their own ability as cattleman. Far easier to have "others' help with your evaluation than to have to be alone in your own pastures picking the correct sire.
3. Belonging. People tend to want to belong to 'groups'. They are either in a "group" or long to be in "the group"........
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Post by elkwc on Sept 20, 2014 15:41:48 GMT -6
I couldn't agree more, George. A breeder is much better off to pick a bull that he raised out of his better cows than to play the lotto of buying a $10,000 unproven yearling bull. There are a couple of things that work against common sense: 1. Ego. People love to have their ego stoked by having fellow breeders see them raise their hands at certain sales. They love to see their name in the HW in the sale report. They love it that OTHERS will see their name in the HW. (Why do you think Coopers-Holdens-others have those big fancy "thank you" ads?) 2. Lack of confidence in their own ability as cattleman. Far easier to have "others' help with your evaluation than to have to be alone in your own pastures picking the correct sire. 3. Belonging. People tend to want to belong to 'groups'. They are either in a "group" or long to be in "the group"........ Glenn that is a very good post. In my opinion if a breeder AI's a few of his best cow families to an outside bull it is better many times than purchasing a totally new bull with new bloodlines. First he knows the maternal side and second he can line breed a little if he desires. |
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Post by Mickelson on Sept 20, 2014 17:47:10 GMT -6
Why don't you AI your bottom cows to the bull of choice before you tie on?
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Post by larso on Sept 20, 2014 21:34:09 GMT -6
Couldn't agree more with the last few posts. I made a decision a few years ago the only out side genetics I would purchase would be either by way of AI or Embryo's. I would rather try a bull through AI and see if he is what I need than buy a bull then feel obliged to keep against my better judgement just because I payed big money for him.
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Post by bookcliff on Sept 21, 2014 11:59:29 GMT -6
I've bought my share that were over the amount you listed Glenn and quite a few that weren't. to be right honest the cheaper ones usally outbred the more expensive ones here.
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Post by hrndherf on Sept 21, 2014 22:19:53 GMT -6
I guess I'm a tight a$$. I never have.
I did see many sell for that or more at the female sale I went to Friday. Polled breeders seemed to be more willing to part with more cash for a pointy head. 21 females sold for 10,000 or more, 7 of those were sired by a horned bull. 10 Lots over 20,000 and only 2 of those sired by a Horned bull. Did a quick count and 2 times more Horns sold than polled. Looks like I am on the wrong side of the popular/wealthy side of the deal.
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Post by elkwc on Sept 22, 2014 4:41:30 GMT -6
I guess I'm a tight a$$. I never have. I did see many sell for that or more at the female sale I went to Friday. Polled breeders seemed to be more willing to part with more cash for a pointy head. 21 females sold for 10,000 or more, 7 of those were sired by a horned bull. 10 Lots over 20,000 and only 2 of those sired by a Horned bull. Did a quick count and 2 times more Horns sold than polled. Looks like I am on the wrong side of the popular/wealthy side of the deal. From my recent search for a polled bull I will say if you are on the horned side you are on the side with the most quality and more desirable type of cattle for the commercial producer. Not that it puts any money in your pocket. |
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Post by Trailmaster on Sept 22, 2014 8:20:52 GMT -6
I've probably said this here before, but in most cases, a breeder is better off AI'ing his best cows to proven bulls and raise his own herd sires, rather than spend $10,000+ on unproven yearling bulls and have about 1 in 10 truly work out. That's a good idea and something I tried this year. I think it'll be a bit of a uphill battle but we'll see how it works. I didn't AI "all" my best cows because I didn't want to rob my herd bulls of all the best cows. I AI'd around 20 head. The problem I foresee is I probably put more emphasis on the cow my herd bulls are out of than the sire. Of the 20 probably only 10 are cows I would consider using sons of. If I get 50% bred AI that's 5 head. Then if half are heifer calves that leaves 2-3 bulls to select from. I'll have to see if 1 of those meets my standards. If not I'll be forking over the dough to buy one again. The bright side of that is if I do have to spend $10,000 that sould only be around 2-3 of my own to pay for him. I feel that's a small price to pay for something that has such a huge impact in the future of my herd. I do a lot of homework but I fair far better that just 1 in 10 working out. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 8:25:59 GMT -6
I guess I'm a tight a$$. I never have. I did see many sell for that or more at the female sale I went to Friday. Polled breeders seemed to be more willing to part with more cash for a pointy head. 21 females sold for 10,000 or more, 7 of those were sired by a horned bull. 10 Lots over 20,000 and only 2 of those sired by a Horned bull. Did a quick count and 2 times more Horns sold than polled. Looks like I am on the wrong side of the popular/wealthy side of the deal. how much did the one with the revenue plan sell for or did they all have plans? im gonna try that too. Lot 1 Replacement heifer by Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. Bona fide donor material. If you are looking for future donor with revenue plan give me a call. Cash flow as follows: yrlng = nothing 2yr old = still nothing as she is open cause we flushed the poop out of her as a virgin yrlng 3yr old = still won't breed and we ended up with all empty embryos 4yr old = got her stuck AI so we'll se what she has next spring 5yr old = i think we screwed up her ability to actually raise her own calf flushing her its definitly not her genetics lets try one more flush 6yr old = oops she's tits up, probably good deal cause her insurance policy is better than her salvage. she worked for my revenue plan atleast. |
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Post by George on Sept 22, 2014 9:25:14 GMT -6
I guess I'm a tight a$$. I never have. I did see many sell for that or more at the female sale I went to Friday. Polled breeders seemed to be more willing to part with more cash for a pointy head. 21 females sold for 10,000 or more, 7 of those were sired by a horned bull. 10 Lots over 20,000 and only 2 of those sired by a Horned bull. Did a quick count and 2 times more Horns sold than polled. Looks like I am on the wrong side of the popular/wealthy side of the deal. how much did the one with the revenue plan sell for or did they all have plans? im gonna try that too. Lot 1 Replacement heifer by Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. Bona fide donor material. If you are looking for future donor with revenue plan give me a call. Cash flow as follows: yrlng = nothing 2yr old = still nothing as she is open cause we flushed the poop out of her as a virgin yrlng 3yr old = still won't breed and we ended up with all empty embryos 4yr old = got her stuck AI so we'll se what she has next spring 5yr old = i think we screwed up her ability to actually raise her own calf flushing her its definitly not her genetics lets try one more flush 6yr old = oops she's tits up, probably good deal cause her insurance policy is better than her salvage. she worked for my revenue plan atleast. LOLOLOL! |
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Post by picketwire on Sept 22, 2014 18:48:01 GMT -6
Some good thoughts on here and some are just plain . . . well I'd rather not say in the interest of being nice. As far as I am concerned when your homework is done (and boy do I mean done) then it does not matter what you spend if you are confident that it is what your herd needs. I have always tried to maintain the thought process that it is a very fine line between budget conscious and just plain being a tight ass. I have been both. Now as far as me paying in excess of 10K. Split it between bulls and females. I have only seen two cows ever that if I had the money I would have paid over 10k for, one brought $6000 and I was the biggest dumbass in the world for not owning her and the other brought 100,000K and those were in my angus days. Saw lots of black bulls that should not have brought the dollars they did but a few that were well worth the money over 10K. Same on the Hereford side, lots of bulls both sides that were worth the money and some that were not. Have been close myself several times to 10K but not over (there is my close line between budget and tightass!). I will say this, in my experience when I have done my homework, there is a direct correlation between higher price paid and quality of those daughters as producing cows. As far as Hereford females over 10K it is very similar to the angus side except I have not seen a Hereford female (with my own eyes) that if I had an unlimited budget I would have paid 100K for but there have been many I would have paid 10K for or a little more.
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. Use to say $3000 to $5000 for a good to great pair... With what commercial cows are worth that is not extreme anymore ... Note, I don't buy but a couple a year.. 
