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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 20:08:51 GMT -6
it would be interesting to hear what herefords (male or female) you would have paid that for... anyone else too. not that i would have paid that much but one of the nicer bulls i've seen in awhile the guy used him a year maybe two then sold him to a rancher... maybe it was grazing district can't remember. but he didn't have epd's so it would have been a waste. anyhow, woulda tried him here. might be fun to go try and see that bull this fall. femalewise... bought her but then let my concious get the better of me.
Hmmm..... A proven cow? Hmmm..... she's got a nice little bull calf i wouldn't mind trying next spring too and she recently spent a day or two in miles city. ya that female.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 20:18:40 GMT -6
I have on occasion bought herd bulls without seeing them. You can call me naïve or stupid but really is not that big of deal if you trust who you are doing business with. To tell you the truth some of the truly great female producing bulls are not that handsome. Like, Doug not that many breeders that are willing to do business with just because want to maintain fairly pure Line 1 base.(right or wrong)
I really prefer buying herd bulls private treaty. I can take a day or two decide instead of 30 seconds.
I partnered on a bull that cost more than 10k this year but personally haven't paid over that for any other herd bulls. Haven't sold any over 10k either.
[/quote Yeah, my sleeplessness bit me right in the backside. I meant buy a bull without epd's. sight unseen is a good point as well and you make a very good point about knowing who it is you are dealing with. A very good post and a good point. never had one without papers i guess and/or epd's. i'd take the one i was talking about earlier and use him without papers or epd's but i'd probably more than likely make an effort to get him papered. i keep telling myself i need to keep registering cause if there ever came a day where i was killed etc and no one wanted to take them over and had to sell them they'd be maybe worth more to someone with than without papers... don't mean its true but thats what i tell myself. i guess i don't know of a whole lot of outfits selling bulls without papers... maybe a couple just straight pedigree breeders and no epd's and i wouldn't have any hesitation there either if i thought it would do me good. edited to add: you used to bring a canadian bull down and they may as well not had epd's.
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Post by elkwc on Sept 23, 2014 21:31:19 GMT -6
It has been stated here before but maybe not this plain. The whole beef industry starts with those of us who choose to raise bulls. We are the NUBER ONE factor in the profitability of not just our ranch but the industry as a whole. Boyd Dvorak gave me some great advice when I was starting. I was talking about getting started without going broke. He said "if you can't walk into your bankers office buck naked then don't get started. You will go broke or you won't be doing any of your customers any good" 2 years later I told my wife that the banker was going to make some changes in our operation because I was so broke I expected him to call in the note. He didn't and I made no changes and did the same thing again the next year. That time he asked me if I really wanted the note. Collectively we have more impact on the beef industry than high intrest or expensive corn or high fuel or any other thing I can think of. The industry would continue to exist in any of those circumstances but if we all kept our worst females and used our worst bulls the industry would cease to exist. When I start worrying about my bottom line over a $10,000 purchase that will affect that much is when I start thinking about going commercial. I have bet on the come for so long it is just part of who I am. Doug your post reminds me of the old saying which came first the egg or the hen. I can assure you that the commercial breeder is who somewhat keeps the purebred breeder in line by not buying the bulls. I saw it in the 80's and 90's during the frame race and think that certain polled breeders will see it again if they don't quit following the show ring fads. I sure hope you didn't hurt your elbow patting yourself on the back. Your statement reminds me of the one Craig made in the AHJ recently when he stated something to the fact that commercial breeders relied on purebred breeders for soundness. The furthest thing from the truth. And your statement about the #1 factor in profitability is also in my opinion. I have looked at your site and liked your cattle. But your arrogance is annoying. If you kept your worst females the commercial breeders would quit buying your bulls and you would go out of business way before the industry would cease to exist. If you really believe what you stated I have some beach front property in SW KS I would like to sell you.
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Post by Trailmaster on Sept 23, 2014 21:32:56 GMT -6
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Post by dougthorson on Sept 23, 2014 22:07:26 GMT -6
I think you may have missed a couple pharases when you read my post
those of us who choose to raise bulls
Collectively we
If all go on one path the commercial breeder has to either follow or keep their own. If they keep their own they are
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Post by elkwc on Sept 24, 2014 4:46:57 GMT -6
I think you may have missed a couple pharases when you read my post those of us who choose to raise bulls Collectively we If all go on one path the commercial breeder has to either follow or keep their own. If they keep their own they are Doug I highly doubt you or anyone else has enough influence to get every breeder who raises bulls to follow your direction. Remember the frame race. That is why many commercial breeders went Angus around here. They could buy the type of bull they desired and not a giant. Secondly it is the commercial breeder and how it mates that bull with his cows that determines the end product that ends up on the rail. Your bull is just one piece of the puzzle. The current fad by many popular polled breeders hasn't a single breeder to raise the overgrown dwarfs. There are other options and always will be. Some breeder and some breed will always be willing to supply what the commercial breeder desires. Not what some professor or some purebred breeders think they should raise. In the end those writing the checks will determine what they raise. I can remember purebred breeders hauling 2-3 year old bulls to the sale and selling them at slaughter bull prices because they couldn't sell them. That can happne again if the purebred raiser doesn't listen to the commercial breeder.
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Post by bookcliff on Sept 24, 2014 13:57:07 GMT -6
i've said it many times and I'll say it again and I know I'll piss off some of the folks on this site.......
a feller probably ain't got any business being in the bull business till he's fed out a couple of pens of steers in a feedyard and run some commerical cows first.
futhermore, all the experts AKA studs, extension, university, ect ect ect ect ought to meet this same 2 criteria before they can ever pimp or reccommend any bull, breed or practice. things are very often times are a'hellava lot different out in the pasture, sorting alleys, bunkines and salebarns many a time than in that nice cozy office they sit in with all thier spreedsheets and theories that if they don't work, well they aint gonna go broke.
like our resident cow plumber here on herf talk, I feel the same way. Tim had it right in an earlier thread, I too am getting to the age were I want to listen to those who can say been there, done that and survived and thrived in the day to day beef business, not those who just study it from a desk.
I can still remember Ronnie Green and Future Beef
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Post by elkwc on Sept 24, 2014 15:28:20 GMT -6
i've said it many times and I'll say it again and I know I'll piss off some of the folks on this site....... a feller probably ain't got any business being in the bull business till he's fed out a couple of pens of steers in a feedyard and run some commerical cows first. futhermore, all the experts AKA studs, extension, university, ect ect ect ect ought to meet this same 2 criteria before they can ever pimp or reccommend any bull, breed or practice. things are very often times are a'hellava lot different out in the pasture, sorting alleys, bunkines and salebarns many a time than in that nice cozy office they sit in with all thier spreedsheets and theories that if they don't work, well they aint gonna go broke. like our resident cow plumber here on herf talk, I feel the same way. Tim had it right in an earlier thread, I too am getting to the age were I want to listen to those who can say been there, done that and survived and thrived in the day to day beef business, not those who just study it from a desk. I can still remember Ronnie Green and Future BeefTK very well stated. I agree 100%. And why I listen to those who have skin in the game and not those who have never fed a head but think I should listen to them on what bull to buy. .
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Post by larso on Sept 24, 2014 18:23:31 GMT -6
I agree with Dougthorson to some extent, the stud breeder has a huge influence on the way (type) of cattle that are being bred, but along with that goes the responsibly of breeding them right. The frame race in the 70's 80's proved that, it was the stud breeders who 1st went down that tract, the commercial guys followed then we all realized this is not working we should be breeding them smaller. What happened then was the commercial breeders expected the stud breeder to breed them smaller. At least that is what happen out here anyway. What I think and I'm saying this for myself as well as anybody else is that the stud breeder MUST be fully educated as to what the industry requires, there needs to be far greater communication between breeders and feeders at grass roots level, then and only then will the gulf between the 2 close. Because as it stands that Blue ribbon hanging around the neck at the front of the line on show day certainty has a big influence on peoples thinking. After saying all that my calves by Remittal Game Day and NJW Trust have just arrived, so far I'm very happy with them but time will tell. Sorry Glen I've probably gone way off tract from your original post.
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Post by Glenn on Sept 24, 2014 18:37:37 GMT -6
No worries, mate! These things always take on a life of there own. It's been a good discussion with some good back and forth.
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Post by elkwc on Sept 24, 2014 21:45:19 GMT -6
I agree with Dougthorson to some extent, the stud breeder has a huge influence on the way (type) of cattle that are being bred, but along with that goes the responsibly of breeding them right. The frame race in the 70's 80's proved that, it was the stud breeders who 1st went down that tract, the commercial guys followed then we all realized this is not working we should be breeding them smaller. What happened then was the commercial breeders expected the stud breeder to breed them smaller. At least that is what happen out here anyway. What I think and I'm saying this for myself as well as anybody else is that the stud breeder MUST be fully educated as to what the industry requires, there needs to be far greater communication between breeders and feeders at grass roots level, then and only then will the gulf between the 2 close. Because as it stands that Blue ribbon hanging around the neck at the front of the line on show day certainty has a big influence on peoples thinking. After saying all that my calves by Remittal Game Day and NJW Trust have just arrived, so far I'm very happy with them but time will tell. Sorry Glen I've probably gone way off tract from your original post. Larso I can only comment about the commercial breeders in this area which covers a lot of cow country. Many of the commercial breeders here never jumped on the frame race wagon. Many still wanted mature bulls in the 1850-2000 pound range with a few just over. Some of the Angus breeders in this area continued to raise a more moderate type of bull and that is one reason many switched. Along with the quality of the Herefords going down in many cases as the breeders chased frame size and didn't pay any attention to structure or muscling. In general it needs to be a team effort. But the purebred breeder needs to communicate and raise what the commercial man wants. In most cases I know of the commercial man communicates with the feeder buyers and also feedlot managers. They know what they need to raise in order to get top dollar when they sell. In fact several in this area retain ownership of their calves through the feedlot to the rail so they know for sure what it takes. Before I selected the bull last Feb I visited with a longtime feeder and a feedlot manager to see what they felt fed the best and then graded the best on the rail. Both basically described similar types. Close to the same type that has done well for many years. A little larger fat when mature and market ready but the same type of phenotype. But when talking to purebred breeders a few run commercial cattle also, some communicate well with the commercial breeders but many believe everything the AHA, the professors and the show people tell them and don't listen to the commercial breeder or the feeder. I asked one if he considered what the commercial man wants when he goes to select a new herd bull because the type I saw at his place wasn't what either the feeder or packer wants. He said no he attends shows and talks to other purebred breeders and listens to a few speakers at seminars. His was one of two places I've been that never sold out of bulls this spring. Everyone else did. That should tell him he might be listening to the wrong people. Like I said when you bypass the commercial breeder when making decisions as a purebred breeder I feel you shouldn't complain when they don't buy your bull. The feeling I get from some purebred breeders along with the comments made by AHA reps and some speakers is they feel the commercial man isn't smart enough to know what he needs and needs to be told. That is the furthest thing from the truth. They know way better than many purebred breeders do and it is evident when looking at the herds of each.
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Post by larso on Sept 24, 2014 23:50:32 GMT -6
I totally agree with you, you just put it better than me. I will say at our national Poll Hereford show and sale we did have two classes at the beginning of the day where you could enter your bull to be judged by a meat buyer, this was done before the official judging commenced, a step in the right direction perhaps. What really pis--d off me and Sudsy was while we were trying to listen to what he had to say a board member standing in front of us was talking so loud to his mates and taking not the slightest notice we hardly herd a word. It is not often my hands get itchy and I've got to put them in my pocket but if it hadn't been for Sudsy's firm arm on my shoulder I would have throttled the bloke. "The arrogance of ignorance"
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Post by elkwc on Sept 25, 2014 4:57:17 GMT -6
I totally agree with you, you just put it better than me. I will say at our national Poll Hereford show and sale we did have two classes at the beginning of the day where you could enter your bull to be judged by a meat buyer, this was done before the official judging commenced, a step in the right direction perhaps. What really pis--d off me and Sudsy was while we were trying to listen to what he had to say a board member standing in front of us was talking so loud to his mates and taking not the slightest notice we hardly herd a word. It is not often my hands get itchy and I've got to put them in my pocket but if it hadn't been for Sudsy's firm arm on my shoulder I would have throttled the bloke. "The arrogance of ignorance" Larso glad to hear that. That sounds promising. I asked one purebred breeder who was telling me what I needed and also like most has never seen the herd I was searching for a bull for. I compare the attitude of a few breeder to if they went to buy a pick up. How would they like it if the dealer told them exactly what they needed and that that was their only choice. That him and someone else or some board had decided every pick up needed leather recling seats, fancy wheels and rim and he was buying it for a feed pick up. He would limey go elsewhere. Likewise they don't know my herd and don't know what I need. That is why communication with the commercial breeder is important. He knows what the feeder and packer wants and has an idea what type of bull he needs to raise it. He may need a little more frame than what the packer wants if his cows are smaller framed. So again it needs to be a team effort but the purebred breeder should never skip the commercial breeder buying his bulls. He has to raise what he needs and in return the commercial breeder will raise what the packer needs. Again they can be slightly different due to the difference in cowherds.
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Post by bookcliff on Sept 25, 2014 11:22:49 GMT -6
I totally agree with you, you just put it better than me. I will say at our national Poll Hereford show and sale we did have two classes at the beginning of the day where you could enter your bull to be judged by a meat buyer, this was done before the official judging commenced, a step in the right direction perhaps. What really pis--d off me and Sudsy was while we were trying to listen to what he had to say a board member standing in front of us was talking so loud to his mates and taking not the slightest notice we hardly herd a word. It is not often my hands get itchy and I've got to put them in my pocket but if it hadn't been for Sudsy's firm arm on my shoulder I would have throttled the bloke. "The arrogance of ignorance" reminds me of the time Tom G and I were requested to come to the AHA board meeting teh day before the annual meetings to give a presentatation on our Hereford Feeder calf sale we we that Gus, the Oleen boys TG and I were holding once in teh spring and once in the fall every year and what we did that made it a real bell ringer each year while everyone elses at teh time was teh proverbial once and done wreck. we had had a really long day since our fall calf sale was the same day and we had to relly hustle to get to KC after it to give the presentation. we just finished a real bell ringer that afternoon, outselling Finks angus influence sale the week before by anywhere from 5 to 10 cents (back when claves were selling for about a buck or so) depending on weigh and class and consequently Nichols calf sale in Iowa by the same amount earlier in the week so we were pretty upbeat. not for long however, during our presentation a couple of the board mebers were taking catnaps and most of the rest pretty much sat there with teh glazed over eyes I don't give a damn look. to this day I will not give 3 men that were on that board the time of day. futhermore, when a couple of us approached the board during the question and answer program a couple years ago at the annual meeting about incoperating and age and source program like angus verified, with prices to do so already hammered out thru aginfolink along with a combined BVD testing with igenity,( all rolled up in one for about 3.50 to 4.50 a head)under the banner of the Hereford assn, none of the board even asked us any questions and within a couple of minutes wer were told that the session was ending so everyone could get downstairs to the show as it had already started. we were nenver once asked anymore about it nor did they even care. finally when hereford Verified was unvailed, several of us who were feeding cattle went and found the board members and staff in attendance that evening at the Lincoln conference and proceeded to tell expalin to them if would never get off teh ground, that it would be a wreck for one simple fat. the whole thing was based off of the Kansas weighted average. now for yo folks who haven't ever feed out and cattle, why would you want to sell your fat steers for the combined average price for that week made up of every pen teh packers bought.......sounds resonable enough till you look at what the weighted average is......the average price of fat steers, fat heifers, dairy fat steers and heifers and even the pens of mexican cattle and roping steers that were done and now on feed.thus you steers were automatically 3-5 bucks back of the markert for fat steers when at teh same time on the open market or contracts with the packers herfs were bringing steady money or even a couple bucks more in those days when national had to really hunt to find em for CHB. Oh but your getting 5 to 10 dollar premuim on those cattle. that many be we told em but were giving up $36 to 60 bucks on the live price. nothing changed after those conversations and herf verified was dead on dilivery.
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Post by strojanherefords on Sept 25, 2014 11:50:32 GMT -6
I think that ten thousand dollars is the most that a bull would be worth because over $10,000 it would be cheaper to A.I. to a comparable bull ($60 ai costs x 60% conception rate = $100 per calf, $10,000 bull/ 25 calves x 4 years = $1000). With a margin of safety, I would spend no more than $7,500 dollars for a bull. They top end of any production sale is overvalued, so I look to get a bull from a reputable cowherd that has above average performance and a good maternal history. Since we cannot know how good a bull or cow is until after they are gone, I will let the glory hounds bid high and I will take the bargain. Personally, I would rather support the breeders who are going in the same direction a myself by buying a bull at auction. But unfortunately Ochs are out of business and Courtney's auction is two weeks after I turn the bulls out, so I am stuck with A.I. for now.
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Post by timbernt on Sept 25, 2014 17:36:41 GMT -6
The Harper program today is based on using the old Canadian genetics Ochs accumulated and Harper has in the tank. The bulls they are producing are just not as well promoted or presented as before. As someone who uses lots of Canadian genetics and several of the same bulls as the old Ochs program I think you are viewing the old Ochs genetics thru rose colored glasses. If you gave me their semen bank I would be hard pressed to find a bull to use. Maybe Duracell, but I have a flushmate in the tank and don't use him. Maybe 14Z, but I have him in the tank and don't use him. There must be at least a dozen more the same way that I have an interest in them or their sire. Some bulls they used I owned both the mother and sire.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 21:15:14 GMT -6
reminds me of the time Tom G and I were requested to come to the AHA board meeting teh day before the annual meetings to give a presentatation on our Hereford Feeder calf sale we we that Gus, the Oleen boys TG and I were holding once in teh spring and once in the fall every year and what we did that made it a real bell ringer each year while everyone elses at teh time was teh proverbial once and done wreck. we had had a really long day since our fall calf sale was the same day and we had to relly hustle to get to KC after it to give the presentation. we just finished a real bell ringer that afternoon, outselling Finks angus influence sale the week before by anywhere from 5 to 10 cents (back when claves were selling for about a buck or so) depending on weigh and class and consequently Nichols calf sale in Iowa by the same amount earlier in the week so we were pretty upbeat. not for long however, during our presentation a couple of the board mebers were taking catnaps and most of the rest pretty much sat there with teh glazed over eyes I don't give a damn look. to this day I will not give 3 men that were on that board the time of day. futhermore, when a couple of us approached the board during the question and answer program a couple years ago at the annual meeting about incoperating and age and source program like angus verified, with prices to do so already hammered out thru aginfolink along with a combined BVD testing with igenity,( all rolled up in one for about 3.50 to 4.50 a head)under the banner of the Hereford assn, none of the board even asked us any questions and within a couple of minutes wer were told that the session was ending so everyone could get downstairs to the show as it had already started. we were nenver once asked anymore about it nor did they even care. finally when hereford Verified was unvailed, several of us who were feeding cattle went and found the board members and staff in attendance that evening at the Lincoln conference and proceeded to tell expalin to them if would never get off teh ground, that it would be a wreck for one simple fat. the whole thing was based off of the Kansas weighted average. now for yo folks who haven't ever feed out and cattle, why would you want to sell your fat steers for the combined average price for that week made up of every pen teh packers bought.......sounds resonable enough till you look at what the weighted average is......the average price of fat steers, fat heifers, dairy fat steers and heifers and even the pens of mexican cattle and roping steers that were done and now on feed.thus you steers were automatically 3-5 bucks back of the markert for fat steers when at teh same time on the open market or contracts with the packers herfs were bringing steady money or even a couple bucks more in those days when national had to really hunt to find em for CHB. Oh but your getting 5 to 10 dollar premuim on those cattle. that many be we told em but were giving up $36 to 60 bucks on the live price. nothing changed after those conversations and herf verified was dead on dilivery. TK - as for those board members who were either sleeping and/or disinterested - you know it was f'ed up from the beginning. Why in the hell would you guys talk to them about feeder & fat cattle? If you wanted their attention, you should have discussed how to better promote the junior program, planning and organizing the Hereford gala, building the scholarship foundation and the amount of show premiums for the this year's circuit. Who gives a sh@# about some damn feeder calf sale? You are talking about selling some steers when there are show heifers to sell the kids. We've had good people on the board over the years. Unfortunately, they have been outnumbered by way too many that have absolutely no clue about the cattle industry, i.e. not enough true cattlemen as AHA board members. They may love the Hereford breed, and have a real passion for Hereford cattle, but that does not necessarily mean they understand the industry and how it works. Unfortunately, they do have a vote, and that vote is often influenced by people who have ulterior motives that may not be in the best interests of the AHA and the Hereford breed. Case in point - it has been an uphill battle to get ALL board members to support the very program that could drive the Hereford breed forward - CHB. On more than one occasion in the past 15-20 years, a change by a single vote would have ended CHB. Tom, you've attended the annual meeting for probably 25 years. Tell me the last time you heard a board candidate give a speech where they did not refer to the juniors in order to garner votes? Better cater to them or you won't be elected. Last I knew we were a beef organization, focused on selling beef and promoting our genetics so in the end we could sell beef (those feeder calves produced by Hereford seedstock). In my opinion, the AHA has lost its focus - more concerned about social events than selling beef. Our board members and the membership who elect them (of which I am a part) only have ourselves to blame.
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Post by larso on Sept 25, 2014 22:30:30 GMT -6
That pretty much sums up the situation here in Aus. IMO. " you get the government you deserve " For me I haven't got the energy to try and make a difference, I would rather concentrate on my own program and enjoy the discussions on HT.
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Post by elkwc on Sept 26, 2014 4:52:56 GMT -6
reminds me of the time Tom G and I were requested to come to the AHA board meeting teh day before the annual meetings to give a presentatation on our Hereford Feeder calf sale we we that Gus, the Oleen boys TG and I were holding once in teh spring and once in the fall every year and what we did that made it a real bell ringer each year while everyone elses at teh time was teh proverbial once and done wreck. we had had a really long day since our fall calf sale was the same day and we had to relly hustle to get to KC after it to give the presentation. we just finished a real bell ringer that afternoon, outselling Finks angus influence sale the week before by anywhere from 5 to 10 cents (back when claves were selling for about a buck or so) depending on weigh and class and consequently Nichols calf sale in Iowa by the same amount earlier in the week so we were pretty upbeat. not for long however, during our presentation a couple of the board mebers were taking catnaps and most of the rest pretty much sat there with teh glazed over eyes I don't give a damn look. to this day I will not give 3 men that were on that board the time of day. futhermore, when a couple of us approached the board during the question and answer program a couple years ago at the annual meeting about incoperating and age and source program like angus verified, with prices to do so already hammered out thru aginfolink along with a combined BVD testing with igenity,( all rolled up in one for about 3.50 to 4.50 a head)under the banner of the Hereford assn, none of the board even asked us any questions and within a couple of minutes wer were told that the session was ending so everyone could get downstairs to the show as it had already started. we were nenver once asked anymore about it nor did they even care. finally when hereford Verified was unvailed, several of us who were feeding cattle went and found the board members and staff in attendance that evening at the Lincoln conference and proceeded to tell expalin to them if would never get off teh ground, that it would be a wreck for one simple fat. the whole thing was based off of the Kansas weighted average. now for yo folks who haven't ever feed out and cattle, why would you want to sell your fat steers for the combined average price for that week made up of every pen teh packers bought.......sounds resonable enough till you look at what the weighted average is......the average price of fat steers, fat heifers, dairy fat steers and heifers and even the pens of mexican cattle and roping steers that were done and now on feed.thus you steers were automatically 3-5 bucks back of the markert for fat steers when at teh same time on the open market or contracts with the packers herfs were bringing steady money or even a couple bucks more in those days when national had to really hunt to find em for CHB. Oh but your getting 5 to 10 dollar premuim on those cattle. that many be we told em but were giving up $36 to 60 bucks on the live price. nothing changed after those conversations and herf verified was dead on dilivery. TK - as for those board members who were either sleeping and/or disinterested - you know it was f'ed up from the beginning. Why in the hell would you guys talk to them about feeder & fat cattle? If you wanted their attention, you should have discussed how to better promote the junior program, planning and organizing the Hereford gala, building the scholarship foundation and the amount of show premiums for the this year's circuit. Who gives a sh@# about some damn feeder calf sale? You are talking about selling some steers when there are show heifers to sell the kids. We've had good people on the board over the years. Unfortunately, they have been outnumbered by way too many that have absolutely no clue about the cattle industry, i.e. not enough true cattlemen as AHA board members. They may love the Hereford breed, and have a real passion for Hereford cattle, but that does not necessarily mean they understand the industry and how it works. Unfortunately, they do have a vote, and that vote is often influenced by people who have ulterior motives that may not be in the best interests of the AHA and the Hereford breed. Case in point - it has been an uphill battle to get ALL board members to support the very program that could drive the Hereford breed forward - CHB. On more than one occasion in the past 15-20 years, a change by a single vote would have ended CHB. Tom, you've attended the annual meeting for probably 25 years. Tell me the last time you heard a board candidate give a speech where they did not refer to the juniors in order to garner votes? Better cater to them or you won't be elected. Last I knew we were a beef organization, focused on selling beef and promoting our genetics so in the end we could sell beef (those feeder calves produced by Hereford seedstock). In my opinion, the AHA has lost its focus - more concerned about social events than selling beef. Our board members and the membership who elect them (of which I am a part) only have ourselves to blame. Bob very well stated. And the attitude TK and you mention is prevalent even among polled breeders. So far I have found horned breeders seem to have learned a lesson during the frame race and are interested in raising what the commercial cowperson, feeder and packer want and isn't following the trend to shorter compact cattle that the polled breeders seem to be.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2014 9:01:34 GMT -6
That pretty much sums up the situation here in Aus. IMO. " you get the government you deserve " For me I haven't got the energy to try and make a difference, I would rather concentrate on my own program and enjoy the discussions on HT. We are on the same page my friend.
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Sept 26, 2014 9:19:36 GMT -6
Going back to the first post of this thread: it sure be nice if I could Sell $10.000 animals
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