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Post by Jobulls on Apr 2, 2015 8:44:47 GMT -6
I enjoy reading Hereford Talk, but try to stay out of the discussion, but I could not resist on this one. We were PAP testing bulls last week, and the vet and I were talking about where the cattle industry is going. He indicated that 10 years ago they did not see heart problems below 7,500 feet. He said that they are now having heart problems in feed yards at 3,000 feet. I wonder if we are selecting for the wrong things. Glen's cow looks functional. www.bovinevetonline.com/bv-magazine/High-altitude-disease-or-high-production-disease-Part-2-239110511.html
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Post by Glenn on Apr 2, 2015 9:10:39 GMT -6
JOBulls, I know my attitude hasn't been the best towards polled or "black herefords" (can't help my self with the quotes) but I'm trying to be better. Hope you feel comfortable joining the conversation more in the future.
On your topic, I have been told (so yes to satisfy OldDuffer it is hearsay) by SEVERAL sources this is a HUGE problem in the Angus breed right now.
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Post by mehf on Apr 2, 2015 11:54:42 GMT -6
Glenn, Interesting news. But in my book, it is just "tough sh-t" for the angus breed.
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Post by jayh on Apr 2, 2015 12:53:43 GMT -6
"And in saying that if you start looking at cattle that make it on grass you see short legged high volume cows that (Work) . " Short legged, heavy muscled cattle don't work in most of the country I've been around. I can remember in the 60's that the few breeders who had the short toads ran them in their milk cow traps close to the house and in the sandy pastures. The cattle they ran in the rough pastures were frame 5. The short, heavy muscled cattle usually can't make it. Lighter muscled small cattle like Longhorns, corrientes and sorrier quality Angus and Herefords can but not the short legged toads. And this has held true in the TX Panhandle, NE NM, SW KS, SE CO, OK Panhandle and western OK. Most of these cows never receive much if any grain. Some cake or liquid feed in the winter and that is it. So I would say they are basically grass fed. And yearss of experience has proven what will survive and WORK and what won't. Ok and those cattle will starve to death in Missouri with a pasture full of fescue. ( Its environment ) I can also say I don't believe that 2 inches in height is what makes the difference. Your saying a 4 frame cant hack it and a five frame will . Not buying that one. That is two inch difference. ( its type not height.) I guess we can agree to disagree. I have been in a bad mood lately and guess just looking for argument. So lets just say yours work for you mine work for me.
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Post by elkwc on Apr 2, 2015 16:08:27 GMT -6
"And in saying that if you start looking at cattle that make it on grass you see short legged high volume cows that (Work) . " Short legged, heavy muscled cattle don't work in most of the country I've been around. I can remember in the 60's that the few breeders who had the short toads ran them in their milk cow traps close to the house and in the sandy pastures. The cattle they ran in the rough pastures were frame 5. The short, heavy muscled cattle usually can't make it. Lighter muscled small cattle like Longhorns, corrientes and sorrier quality Angus and Herefords can but not the short legged toads. And this has held true in the TX Panhandle, NE NM, SW KS, SE CO, OK Panhandle and western OK. Most of these cows never receive much if any grain. Some cake or liquid feed in the winter and that is it. So I would say they are basically grass fed. And yearss of experience has proven what will survive and WORK and what won't. Ok and those cattle will starve to death in Missouri with a pasture full of fescue. ( Its environment ) I can also say I don't believe that 2 inches in height is what makes the difference. Your saying a 4 frame cant hack it and a five frame will . Not buying that one. That is two inch difference. ( its type not height.) I guess we can agree to disagree. I have been in a bad mood lately and guess just looking for argument. So lets just say yours work for you mine work for me. I said that short framed heavy muscled, compact cattle weren't efficient and had a hard time making it. As far as frame 4 cattle some of the most hardy and propably what you would say the best adapted for the areas I've been in are Longhorns and Corrientes. They are many times frame 3 & 4's. But they are lighter muscled and can handle the rough country. Nature was involved in their development and type more than most of the other breeds. My Dad and a partner would spend winters gathering rouges in the rough country for ranches. Some had been rouges for several generations. Usually even the Herefords were not only smaller in frame size but lighter muscled also. There were many theories on why but I still feel that nature played a part in it. But the heavy muscled short cattle never made it. In MO they might do well. If you would give the type of cattle I like time to adapt I imagine many of them would do ok in MO. In fact I've known some breeders in MO who raise the same kind we do here basically.
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Post by jayh on Apr 3, 2015 8:00:52 GMT -6
Ok and those cattle will starve to death in Missouri with a pasture full of fescue. ( Its environment ) I can also say I don't believe that 2 inches in height is what makes the difference. Your saying a 4 frame cant hack it and a five frame will . Not buying that one. That is two inch difference. ( its type not height.) I guess we can agree to disagree. I have been in a bad mood lately and guess just looking for argument. So lets just say yours work for you mine work for me. I said that short framed heavy muscled, compact cattle weren't efficient and had a hard time making it. As far as frame 4 cattle some of the most hardy and propably what you would say the best adapted for the areas I've been in are Longhorns and Corrientes. They are many times frame 3 & 4's. But they are lighter muscled and can handle the rough country. Nature was involved in their development and type more than most of the other breeds. My Dad and a partner would spend winters gathering rouges in the rough country for ranches. Some had been rouges for several generations. Usually even the Herefords were not only smaller in frame size but lighter muscled also. There were many theories on why but I still feel that nature played a part in it. But the heavy muscled short cattle never made it. In MO they might do well. If you would give the type of cattle I like time to adapt I imagine many of them would do ok in MO. In fact I've known some breeders in MO who raise the same kind we do here basically. I agree that there are a lot of breeders in MO that are raising that type and they are fine but they are adapted to it like you said mother nature has a huge role in selection.
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Post by Glenn on Apr 20, 2015 13:12:59 GMT -6
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Post by tartancowgirl on Apr 27, 2015 16:59:18 GMT -6
That's really interesting - do Herefords suffer at all in the same environment or is it purely an Angus problem?
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