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Post by jayh on Mar 16, 2015 12:47:05 GMT -6
Seen this over at CT and the pics of those black cattle in the first pic are deep and thick Wonder what frame they are? I realize it says grass fed but they look bigger than they probably are. Really like this type of cow. She has power, depth, and natural thickness. Unlike most of the funnel butted cows you see today. Number 11 in pics. www.dunlouiseangus.com/dunlouise-cow-herd.html |
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Post by jayh on Mar 16, 2015 12:51:34 GMT -6
If I were to have black cows I would have to try and get this type.
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Post by Glenn on Mar 16, 2015 12:52:42 GMT -6
#11 would be dead within a year in SW Oklahoma.
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Post by jayh on Mar 16, 2015 12:55:23 GMT -6
How do you figure that? Not enough grass?
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Post by jayh on Mar 16, 2015 12:58:52 GMT -6
Please explain! what part don't you guys LIKE about her. Show me her faults
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Post by Glenn on Mar 16, 2015 12:59:06 GMT -6
Right. Not enough grass to fill that body. She could walk and graze 24/7 and never get enough.
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Post by jayh on Mar 16, 2015 13:04:01 GMT -6
So tell me how a taller animal makes the difference? I guess show me how the other type survives and she doesn't. I am not following here.
she would be thin here to Glenn because of the fescue but I like the looks of her.
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Post by Glenn on Mar 16, 2015 13:52:00 GMT -6
Conversations like this want to make me beat my head against the wall. Either you get it or you don't. I think most don't. Fat is not healthy. In cows or people Do you find these women attractive? Do you think they may have fertility problems? What would happen if they were suddenly put on a restricted calorie diet?  If they had to walk 5 miles a day to eat and drink would a more slender woman thrive better? Would she be more apt to get pregnant? It's so common sense that it isn't really funny, but go ahead and breed you a herd of "pretty" fat ones........ |
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Post by Glenn on Mar 16, 2015 14:11:28 GMT -6
Here is an example of more of the 'TYPE' of female that works here. I post this pic, not because she is perfect, but is a good example of the balance needed in a HOT semi-arid area. The picture also shows the type of environment that I run in. The picture was last January about 6 weeks before she had her second calf. She was not fed hay through the winter at all. She had to make due with protein supplement and native dormant pasture.  |
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Post by Glenn on Mar 16, 2015 14:12:52 GMT -6
The Angus cow for comparison  |
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Post by jayh on Mar 16, 2015 14:47:05 GMT -6
LOL. I know what you mean. But I do think the black cow is pretty damn good cow by her looks ( I don't like fat women so I guess I need to put my cows on a diet. LOL.)
Good pic Glenn.
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Post by elkwc on Mar 16, 2015 15:18:46 GMT -6
Here is an example of more of the 'TYPE' of female that works here. I post this pic, not because she is perfect, but is a good example of the balance needed in a HOT semi-arid area. The picture also shows the type of environment that I run in. The picture was last January about 6 weeks before she had her second calf. She was not fed hay through the winter at all. She had to make due with protein supplement and native dormant pasture. Glenn she is the kind of cow I grew up following down a trail. She is an example of what will adapt, survive and produce a good calf every year in adverse conditions. The pic of the #11 is what many calls easy fleshing. She is what I call overweight/fat. There are many words that I feel are misleading, used wrong and also means different things to different individuals. A few of them are easy fleshing and moderation. Words that I heard as a youth that mean more to me are thriftiness, adaptability, fertile, sound and travelability. Cows in the areas where I've been involved with them have to be able to travel and forgage for their feed. Those in the pics would look terrible in 1-3 months. You can tell they have never traveled far for their groceries. |
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Post by jayh on Mar 16, 2015 15:43:52 GMT -6
Here is an example of more of the 'TYPE' of female that works here. I post this pic, not because she is perfect, but is a good example of the balance needed in a HOT semi-arid area. The picture also shows the type of environment that I run in. The picture was last January about 6 weeks before she had her second calf. She was not fed hay through the winter at all. She had to make due with protein supplement and native dormant pasture. Glenn she is the kind of cow I grew up following down a trail. She is an example of what will adapt, survive and produce a good calf every year in adverse conditions. The pic of the #11 is what many calls easy fleshing. She is what I call overweight/fat. There are many words that I feel are misleading, used wrong and also means different things to different individuals. A few of them are easy fleshing and moderation. Words that I heard as a youth that mean more to me are thriftiness, adaptability, fertile, sound and travelability. Cows in the areas where I've been involved with them have to be able to travel and forgage for their feed. Those in the pics would look terrible in 1-3 months. You can tell they have never traveled far for their groceries. The difference is paddock cattle and range cattle. ( two completely different environments ) . The type has more to do with it than height I think. In NE MO usually have plenty of grass its just fescue. so those cows need to be able to adapt to it. |
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Angus Herd
Mar 16, 2015 18:17:49 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by George on Mar 16, 2015 18:17:49 GMT -6
Jay, that particular Angus cow looks like she might be "TOO much of a good thing".
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Post by elkwc on Mar 16, 2015 20:10:53 GMT -6
I was taught very early that the prettiest color on a horse or cow was fat. But that the muscling either exhibited when in thin condition was true natural muscle and not fat many mistake for muscle. It would be interesting to see any of those cows with a majority of the fat pulled off. I imagine you wouldn't be near as impressed.
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Mar 16, 2015 20:52:55 GMT -6
Pictures of the two cows remind me of two categoríes I use when looking at a herd. The "Generous " cow that gives every thing to the calf and the "Selfiish" one that keeps all the food for herself.
The Angus is a germplasm source and may not be practical in many environments,although it's difficult to estimate her size.
It doesn't look fertile either.
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Post by jayh on Mar 16, 2015 22:48:38 GMT -6
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Post by jayh on Mar 16, 2015 22:50:24 GMT -6
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Post by elkwc on Mar 17, 2015 4:59:05 GMT -6
Pictures of the two cows remind me of two categoríes I use when looking at a herd. The "Generous " cow that gives every thing to the calf and the "Selfiish" one that keeps all the food for herself. The Angus is a germplasm source and may not be practical in many environments,although it's difficult to estimate her size. It doesn't look fertile either. I'm concerned about a heifer that we kept that is similar in ways to the above cows. I prefers those who give and not those who take. I have a gut feeling that maybe we shouldn't keep her. She is for sure an "easy keeper", "easy flesher". Will see how she does when her first calf arrives. She could make a quick trip to town. |
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Post by tartancowgirl on Mar 17, 2015 16:06:26 GMT -6
Interested in this discussion because this is a Scottish herd of Native or "Traditional" Angus which are of original Scottish origin with no imported bloodlines. Until very recently the Traditional Angus was described by the Rare Breed Survival Trust as being critically endangered, and thanks largely to the efforts of these people they have increased in numbers and I believe they have been exporting embryos and semen. Yes to my eyes they are too fat, and they probably aren't very big, but remember they are being kept on good grass in the Northeast of Scotland and you might find they would do better on restricted grazing, like our Traditional Herefords. It would be interesting to know how their cattle would perform in other environments.
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Post by elkwc on Mar 17, 2015 17:28:41 GMT -6
Interested in this discussion because this is a Scottish herd of Native or "Traditional" Angus which are of original Scottish origin with no imported bloodlines. Until very recently the Traditional Angus was described by the Rare Breed Survival Trust as being critically endangered, and thanks largely to the efforts of these people they have increased in numbers and I believe they have been exporting embryos and semen. Yes to my eyes they are too fat, and they probably aren't very big, but remember they are being kept on good grass in the Northeast of Scotland and you might find they would do better on restricted grazing, like our Traditional Herefords. It would be interesting to know how their cattle would perform in other environments. I plan on attending a sale soon that will have a grandson of Dunlouise Jipsey Earl E 161(out of his daughter) selling. It will be interesting to see what he looks like. His adjusted YW is 1306. I have seen some of the cows from the herd this bull is from and they are very good. So imagine his mother is also. And she is living in west central OK. With the drought of the last few years it should of been a good test on her. The breeder has some of the heaviest muscled Angus I've seen and they are sound and handle the conditions of west central OK well. I pasted some info I found that gives an idea of the estimated frame score of some of the herd bulls in the herd the pictured cows are from. Also saw elsewhere where it stated that E 161 weighed 1,865 lbs. But wasn't sure if that was mature weight or not. If so a little lighter than I would expect for his muscling if he is a true 5.0 frame size. I will try to remember to add my impression of the bull after I see him. Plan to visit the herd where his mother is sometime and will make an effort to see her. From Brad Johnson -- Physical Information on the Scottish Bulls. Dunlouise Cortachy Boy D137 Birth weight 73 lbs. 400 day weight 1188 lbs. Scrotal 400 days 42cm Eye muscle 14.46 sq inches IMF 5.90 estimated frame score: 5.0 Dunlouise Commander Bond F176 Birth weight 66 lbs. 200 day weight 635 lbs. estimated frame score: 6.0 Dunlouise Jipsey Earl E161 Birth weight 78 lbs. 400 day weight 1100 lbs. estimated frame score: 5.0 Dunlouise Red Native Birth weight 64 lbs. 200 day weight 649 lbs. 9 month Scrotal 39cm estimated frame score: 5.5" |
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Post by strojanherefords on Mar 17, 2015 19:35:51 GMT -6
The Angus cow for comparison Is it just me or is she bloated in the picture? |
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Post by larso on Mar 18, 2015 12:57:51 GMT -6
I don't think she's bloated but then I also think she has never had to worry about where her next mouthful of grass is going to be.
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Post by oldduffer on Mar 20, 2015 7:20:20 GMT -6
Glenn - RE: the photo of your Hereford cow. That looks like a "REAL" Hereford cow.......the type that pays bills......"the Queen of the Range"!
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Post by jayh on Mar 20, 2015 9:59:52 GMT -6
So going back to The original herfs weren't they over 3000 pounds and more like an oxen? I got that from from something I read I think I may be mistaken.
As for paying the bills most of that is marketing and ANGUS has done an outstanding job while we suck.
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