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Post by jhambley on Jan 20, 2011 8:15:18 GMT -6
Looks like the Reyes Jarman group got their web site launched. Was curious if anyone saw them in Denver. www.reyesjarman.com |
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Post by Glenn on Jan 20, 2011 8:47:43 GMT -6
Just a quick glance at the website and some pedigrees makes it look like they are not drawing a "line in the sand" over a "straight" Mark Donald pedigree. Lots of Line One in there.
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Post by Glenn on Jan 20, 2011 8:50:26 GMT -6
Living pretty close to Lone Star Herefords (only about 20 miles from me), I have seen a lot of Mark Donald bred cattle. The thing that they really need work on is udder quality. I mean some of those udders on those cows (and Lone Star used to be a pretty big name and sell a LOT of bulls)(not so much now) were just embarrassing, terrible bad.
And that was one of the "BIG THREE" problems that got Herefords in trouble:
EYES
PROLAPSES
UDDERS
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Post by George on Jan 20, 2011 10:15:38 GMT -6
Living pretty close to Lone Star Herefords (only about 20 miles from me), I have seen a lot of Mark Donald bred cattle. The thing that they really need work on is udder quality. I mean some of those udders on those cows (and Lone Star used to be a pretty big name and sell a LOT of bulls)(not so much now) were just embarrassing, terrible bad. And that was one of the "BIG THREE" problems that got Herefords in trouble: EYES PROLAPSES UDDERS I've seen a plethora of bad udders and bad eyes. But the prolapse problem everyone talks about is a mystery to me. It probably happened during the time when I wasn't involved with cattle. I've only ever seen one Hereford cow prolapse in my life. And she had a 125 lb. calf when the average was running about 65-70 lbs. I've heard of Vindicator in the Polled side, but nothing else. What lines did it affect? George |
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Post by Glenn on Jan 20, 2011 10:27:05 GMT -6
I'm with you on the prolapses. Could be an "urban legend" for all I know. I have only been "associated" with Herefords for 13 or so years but have never had a prolapse with a Hereford or Hereford cross cow. The only one I had in all this time was a Limousin. The "reputation" is there, though. I know "I Luv Herefords" on CT seems to "think" Line One cattle are the prolapsers. Here is another thread promoting the "reputation": ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49461 |
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Post by hoekland on Jan 20, 2011 14:10:41 GMT -6
Living pretty close to Lone Star Herefords (only about 20 miles from me), I have seen a lot of Mark Donald bred cattle. The thing that they really need work on is udder quality. I mean some of those udders on those cows (and Lone Star used to be a pretty big name and sell a LOT of bulls)(not so much now) were just embarrassing, terrible bad. And that was one of the "BIG THREE" problems that got Herefords in trouble: EYES PROLAPSES UDDERS I've seen a plethora of bad udders and bad eyes. But the prolapse problem everyone talks about is a mystery to me. It probably happened during the time when I wasn't involved with cattle. I've only ever seen one Hereford cow prolapse in my life. And she had a 125 lb. calf when the average was running about 65-70 lbs. I've heard of Vindicator in the Polled side, but nothing else. What lines did it affect? George I wonder how much truth is in that, there are lots of Vindicator cattle in the world and the only place I've read that was on CT |
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Post by jayh on Jan 20, 2011 19:10:22 GMT -6
I've seen a plethora of bad udders and bad eyes. But the prolapse problem everyone talks about is a mystery to me. It probably happened during the time when I wasn't involved with cattle. I've only ever seen one Hereford cow prolapse in my life. And she had a 125 lb. calf when the average was running about 65-70 lbs. I've heard of Vindicator in the Polled side, but nothing else. What lines did it affect? George I wonder how much truth is in that, there are lots of Vindicator cattle in the world and the only place I've read that was on CT I can't tell anything about Vindicator but I can tell about another horned side that we had when I was a kid. Every daughter prolapsed. We calved out 8 heifers that spring and every one of them prolapsed. Bred the old cows to a different bull and they were all ok. So I think it had to be the bull. Lemac |
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Post by smnherf on Jan 20, 2011 20:50:52 GMT -6
I wonder how much truth is in that, there are lots of Vindicator cattle in the world and the only place I've read that was on CT I can't tell anything about Vindicator but I can tell about another horned side that we had when I was a kid. Every daughter prolapsed. We calved out 8 heifers that spring and every one of them prolapsed. Bred the old cows to a different bull and they were all ok. So I think it had to be the bull. Lemac I have herd that about Vindicator many years ago from an oldtime Hereford breeder although I don't have any experience personally. I have had personal experience with some horned bulls where their daughters prolapsed in the feedlot and the ones that were bred all prolapsed before their first calf. I am still thinking about if I want to post registration #'s of them on a public board though. This fall when I was at a dispersion sale, another breeder told me about 3 heifers that prolapsed that were out of a pretty well known bull that is being used fairly widely through AI. Sounds like it may be an isolated case though as far as I can tell. This is one of the concerns I have about all this novelty of bringing back all these old lines. They may be just what the industry needs but they may be bringing back some of the not so good traits too. Brian |
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Post by mrvictordomino on Jan 20, 2011 21:38:58 GMT -6
Being a Polled breeder, I always heard that Vindicator was linked
to prolapse issues. I owned two 103T (Vindicator son)daughters who were flush mates and never had any problems. 103T was used pretty heavy in the late 80's and 90's and I never heard of any problems. I did see a post on CT last fall where 103T was mentioned in a prolapse discussion. I agree with Brian when bringing back some of the old bloodlines we might be bringing back old issues that we should have selected away from. My program involves an old bloodline that uses contemporary genetics derived from this bloodline. I have forgotten more about this line than most will ever know, but I still am not sure about some of the cattle in some of these old pedigrees. There are a couple of old bulls I thought about using, but decided against it due to lack of knowledge on possible issues such as udders and prolapse.
I am much more confident in the cattle I am producing where I have my own information gathered over a few decades of my own breeding.
DM
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Post by hoekland on Jan 20, 2011 23:15:23 GMT -6
I agree if it ain't broke, don't try and fix it.
I think the best use of the oldtime genetics is in a herd where they've bred away the tradisional qualities of herefords and need to make a quick about turn.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2011 19:45:30 GMT -6
I had problems with Vindicator and HHH Pzazz in particular. I also seemed to have some problems with Justa Banner. I am talking about vaginal prolapses and red apples here. I don't think uterine prolapses have ever been worse in Herefords than any other breed. It seemed to occur more years ago, I suspect the bad rep has made us more conscious of it and we have culled it out of most of the lines.
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Post by smnherf on Jan 22, 2011 17:43:46 GMT -6
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