Future demand for Hereford feeders.

[timbernt]

As all the new packing plants (both large and small) become operational, has anyone thought about the possibility of a change in the discount for cattle without black hair. The black premium exists because the big 4 packers find it an easy, cheap way to have a branded product. That means the corporate yards they control can only buy black. Since the corporate yards recieve a higher price than other yards, black feeders bring a premium. As smaller plants open and fight for market share I predict some of them will utilize Herefords, like Greater Omaha does. At that point the demand for feeders that aren't black may approach parity.

[guffeygal]

Interesting thought! Certainly hope you are correct.

[redgem]

I've wondered if as the push for more grain for human consumption if there will be more demand for true hereford grass cattle that can finish on pasture

[allenw]

Nov 2, 2021 9:34:36 GMT -6 redgem said:

I've wondered if as the push for more grain for human consumption if there will be more demand for true hereford grass cattle that can finish on pasture

That would be a reward for the few old school true breeders left and a wreck for some of the main stream multipliers of the modern US Hereford.

[Glenn]

Nov 3, 2021 7:03:36 GMT -6 allenw said:

Nov 2, 2021 9:34:36 GMT -6 redgem said:

I've wondered if as the push for more grain for human consumption if there will be more demand for true hereford grass cattle that can finish on pasture

That would be a reward for the few old school true breeders left and a wreck for some of the main stream multipliers of the modern US Hereford.

I’ve basically given up on caring and I know it’s thread drift but the mainstream Hereford today is basically a Red Angus Hybrid. But what does fighting it get you? You look like a quack like the Australian/English dude with his self-serving “study” ridiculed ad nauseum on FB and any public forum (not that he doesn’t deserve it).

[allenw]

Glenn
Just stand strong and go your own way. A few people are open to considering new ideas but most won't consider something new unless searching already.

[timbernt]

We have a new plant opening in 2 weeks about 2 miles from our farm. Eating dinner at the local cafe yesterday the owner approached us about using Herefords as his branded product. He can rail about 200 carcasses, so enough to keep several head away from the traditional market. A lot of those small plants coming on line in the next year. They are small enough the mafia packers can't destroy them thru their traditional predatory practices.

[Glenn]

I sure hope you’re right but no business is too small to be destroyed. A little envelope of money to the “right” inspector and they can effectively shut down a plant for days/weeks/months or fine them enough to hurt or kill. Reminds me of a story my boss used to tell of his days working for oil companies in west Texas. He said “a new set of golf clubs showing up on the appraiser’s porch” was the best insurance against a property tax increase. It’s a dirty world we live in.

[timbernt]

Absolutely. As the small plants start to take market share the big 4 will start manipulating the ones selling into that local market, USDA inspectors, and any grocery store or restaurant that small processor is doing business with. A prime example is CHB with the AHA and National. Another example is Valley Oaks here in Missouri.

[franklinridgefarms]

From the perspective of a commercial cattle outfit that prefers Hereford cattle, I wish they could gain some traction and get rid away from that ridiculous Hereford dock.
We have a few processed for us and friends, it marbles just as good as the black hided cattle.  Unfortunately, though we have finally gave in and are back to using black bulls.  Every dollar matters, and it doesn't pencil out to sell straight bred Herefords at our markets.  Really a shame as those Hereford cattle are much easier to work around, and they can make some nice cows.

[allenw]

I hope it increases the demand for Hereford beef or at least locally produced beef. I see it as an opportunity for a smaller farmer feeder to have somewhere to go with fat cattle.

Can it be labeled and sold as Hereford beef or is that label under private control?

[strojanherefords]

I look what the Top Dollar Angus people are doing to get the high dollar cattle and I think to myself it isn’t worth it. I am doing alright even with the red cow discount.

[strojanherefords]

Nov 9, 2021 11:48:17 GMT -6 allenw said:

I hope it increases the demand for Hereford beef or at least locally produced beef. I see it as an opportunity for a smaller farmer feeder to have somewhere to go with fat cattle.

Can it be labeled and sold as Hereford beef or is that label under private control?

I have heard from two sources that Fleckvieh calves are going into CHB and Greater Omaha's program.   

[soherf]

I have it on good authority that the AHA is getting friendly with the Black Hereford association. I personally think it's wonderful and an excellent market for Hereford bulls since the Blacks have to be 87.5% Hereford with just enough Angus to paint a black hide on what is in reality a red Hereford carcass.

[allenw]

Dec 3, 2021 21:21:18 GMT -6 strojanherefords said:

Nov 9, 2021 11:48:17 GMT -6 allenw said:

I hope it increases the demand for Hereford beef or at least locally produced beef. I see it as an opportunity for a smaller farmer feeder to have somewhere to go with fat cattle.

Can it be labeled and sold as Hereford beef or is that label under private control?

I have heard from two sources that Fleckvieh calves are going into CHB and Greater Omaha's program.   

Doesn't surprise me a bit.

[strojanherefords]

Dec 7, 2021 10:35:33 GMT -6 soherf said:

I have it on good authority that the AHA is getting friendly with the Black Hereford association. I personally think it's wonderful and an excellent market for Hereford bulls since the Blacks have to be 87.5% Hereford with just enough Angus to paint a black hide on what is in reality a red Hereford carcass.

How? Going black hasn’t worked for worked for any of the breeds that tried it. It is basically an admission that the breeds weren’t good enough as purebreds.

[Sudsy]

Couldn't agree more. I am of the opinion we need to maintain our point of difference, (in fact, all our point of differences).
It appears if the cattle population is heading down the path of one very large homogenous breed, black in colour. Quite possibly, not a good thing.

[soherf]

Dec 8, 2021 23:50:52 GMT -6 strojanherefords said:

Dec 7, 2021 10:35:33 GMT -6 soherf said:

I have it on good authority that the AHA is getting friendly with the Black Hereford association. I personally think it's wonderful and an excellent market for Hereford bulls since the Blacks have to be 87.5% Hereford with just enough Angus to paint a black hide on what is in reality a red Hereford carcass.

How? Going black hasn’t worked for worked for any of the breeds that tried it. It is basically an admission that the breeds weren’t good enough as purebreds.

It's a another great outlet for Hereford genetics, both females and bulls.  Black Hereford breeders have to continue to consume Hereford seedstock to keep up their percentages.

I don't think painting a Hereford black is an admission of anything.  I think it's taking a superior product (Hereford beef) and wrapping it in a black hide to utilize the CAB marketing for free.  Sounds like a win - win.

[soherf]

Dec 9, 2021 1:48:52 GMT -6 Sudsy said:

Couldn't agree more. I am of the opinion we need to maintain our point of difference, (in fact, all our point of differences).
It appears if the cattle population is heading down the path of one very large homogenous breed, black in colour. Quite possibly, not a good thing.

It's a different breed.  Herefords are going to stay red.  Black Herefords are not going to take over the reds.


Ya'll can embrace the changes in the world or sit back and watch the world pass you by.  Nobody said you have to sell your bulls to Black Hereford breeders but I can tell you their money is just as green.


I honestly love seeing new outlets for Hereford seedstock sales and welcome openminded discussions.

[Sudsy]

Holly, this whole composite breed thing, in my opinion it takes decades to stabilize a new breed, not generations. By combining two totally different sets of genetics, the predictability/homogenity of the offspring is severely diminished/compromised.

A good bull or cow has to look like a good bull or cow, however, far more importantly they will eventually be assesed/evaluated on the predictability, homogenity (uniformity might be a more suitable word) of their progeny. The most important factor of all/any breeding stock is to further stabilize the "type" the breeder has chosen.

In my opinion (and I stress) in my humble opinion, combining two totally unrelated sets of genes is fraught with many perils, and quite possibly doing the cattle industry a disservice. Please allow me to reiterate, this is my very humble opinion only. I am of the opinion cattle breeders should be decreasing the chance or likelihood of "off type" progeny through the process of turning your "breeding in," that is linebreeding.

To me, I assess/rate a breeder on their ability to breed cattle with a high degree of uniformity and consistency to their chosen "type." Their "type" is their choice, I may or may not rate their "type," type is a personal choice, however predictability, (a very high percentage of progeny true to type) unifomity/ homogenity are the hallmarks of a good cattle breeder. To achieve this end is difficult enough, (unless one has been linebreeding for decades), to introduce an entirely different breed renders the whole process impossible, in my opinion it would set the breeding programme back 20 or 30 years.

No offence meant, I guess it all comes down to our beliefs, parameters, goals in this industry. As I stated in an earlier post, it would appear as if the industry is heading towards one large, homogenous breed. In my opinion, not a good thing. If one chooses to become a breeder of seedstock, one takes on many responsibilities to the breed chosen. To maintain the purity of the breed, and by extension the genetics, is paramount.

Regards Sudsy.

[hickorycreek]

Well stated Sudsy.

[saltamontes5]

Sudsy, you make excellent points. This is why sometime ago I made the general comment that those purebred breeders and legacy family operations better get ready to direct market there product for the end user. This hybrid vigor thing is real and repeatable but not sustainable without discipline. That discipline has never existed and never will because the max hybrid vigor is at the F1 with every passing generation you loose something. To sustain hybrid vigor it would depend on our registered breeders with integrity to maintain the primary ingredients. However the industrial future of beef will be a world where breeds don't matter. Industry demands uniformity and predictability. In fact it craves it. It craves it from the factory to wallstreet. This is why so many are trying to figure out how to eliminate the variability. Walmart has vertically integrated to control quality and customer satisfaction. It is only natural the industry will look at more ways to improve uniformity... If you have something that goes against the industrial standard they will drive you to their standard, or you go out off business. Unless you can beat them and sell direct to people that care or don't by into the industrial standard.