Are we no longer testing for genetic defects?

[lcc]

Lot of cattle in sale catalogs this fall with HYP, MSUDP, and MDP.... wtf

[allenw]

Total lack of responsibility in today's world, top to bottom.

[fivestarherefords]

Worse than a “P” is a “C” in a catalog. We have 60 lots (82 head) in our October sale and every animal will be tested prior to the sale. It’s an investment no doubt but as a registered breeder we have a responsibility to the industry as a whole to provide problem free cattle. Nothing irritates me more than to read a footnote in a catalog that says a carrier animal will be work well in a commercial herd. The defect doesn’t stop with the paper trail!

[strojanherefords]

The AHA has decided that now is the time to let us know that our cattle have skeletons in the closet. I have some cows flagged IEP and DLP because they had 9012Y or Explosion buried in the pedigree. Though 34z is still not identified as a diluter carrier.

[timbernt]

What about the obvious crossbreds in sale catalogs and on websites. At least have the decency to be embarrassed.

[soherf]

Aug 27, 2021 7:58:26 GMT -6 lcc said:

Lot of cattle in sale catalogs this fall with HYP, MSUDP, and MDP.... wtf

It seems people didn't move fast enough to dump these potential carriers before the rule change.

If it wasn't such a huge potential issue I don't think the AHA would have felt the need to label these animals as potential carriers to start with.  I'm honestly happy to see the P cattle called out by the AHA.

It's easy to erase all those P cattle, test them.  That will change them to either F or C.  Once they are labeled as F the link to a specific carrier is broken and the P label stops there.

Selling known or potential carrier animals to other breeders is a touchy topic.  Some buyers know the risks and others don't.  The best course of action is to have test results in hand, full disclosure and an informed buyer.

[strojanherefords]

I saw an animal sold as a potential carrier but it had been DNA tested. How is an animal both tested and non-tested?

[fivestarherefords]

Sept 6, 2021 23:43:30 GMT -6 strojanherefords said:

I saw an animal sold as a potential carrier but it had been DNA tested. How is an animal both tested and non-tested?

MD is a standalone test with an additional charge. Animal was likely tested prior to MD test becoming available or they simply chose not to pay the additional fee.

[strojanherefords]

What does it mean that MD is a separate test? Is the genetic company doing a separate DNA extraction or is every animal being tested for every genetic defect?

[soherf]

Sept 17, 2021 10:55:52 GMT -6 strojanherefords said:

What does it mean that MD is a separate test? Is the genetic company doing a separate DNA extraction or is every animal being tested for every genetic defect?

Each defect/trait has a unique DNA sequence that the lab looks for in a DNA sample.  They run a test for this specific genetic marker, if you will.  They do not sequence the entire genome of each sample sent to the lab.

Sometimes you can't just "add" an additional test if the sample that is housed at the lab has insufficient volume of DNA material.  The lab can not just scan the data from old tests to read new traits, like could be done for some of the prior samples back when MSUD came into the forefront.  The reason being is that the MSUD "SNP" had already been captured by a previous testing method.  Imagine it like an ATM camera that happens to capture a car crash in the background.  The MSUD data was in the background during those 2014-2017 tests.  That's how the AHA could authorize the first 30,000+ tests to be run with the speed in which they did.  It was all just a computer program that scanned the tests already on record.

In the event of a new sample being required there might not be something available on these older bulls, etc.  Also, there could be owners that do not want the tests upgraded to SNP (high density tests vs the old Microsatellite method) because it might exclude some progeny that aren't truly progeny of said parent.  (I know of one instance where 2 offspring lost their papers and two more verified to other bulls.  Those animals that lost their papers did not verify to another sire and are now SOL.)

I have inserted hyperlinks to give a greater depth of information.  Without knowing each readers education level on the subject I have not linked extremely detailed articles but they offer a basic jumping off point for most readers.

[strojanherefords]

As you describe it, the situation with MSUD is more analogous to a pregnant woman asking an ultrasound technician not to tell her if her baby is a boy or a girl. The tech knows if there is a pole or a hole, he just doesn't tell the mother.

[elkwc]

My question is why the AHA doesn't require a test on all potential carriers. I've seen more than one animal this fall that is listed as potential carrier and at least a few state it won't hurt if breeding too non carriers. I talked to one breeder about potential AI sires and my understanding is they checked every potential carrier in their herd.,Not sure why at the very least any potential carrier isn't being tested.

[oldduffer]

Let me look in my files. I have a GREAT quote from THE (great) hereford guy that will explain much of it!

THANKS FOR KEEPING HEREFORD TALK ALIVE AND WELL!

As he said: "I'll be back!"

[oldduffer]

OK. It's Hereford Quiz time! Men and women, boys and girls, Hereford breeders of all ages. What great Hereford guy said this on 18 April 2008?

"Breeders everywhere have been proactive in identifying and isolating the causative agent (IE) within their own herd. This should become a non issue within the breed."

Prizes may be awarded to the winners.

[soherf]

Oct 26, 2021 21:02:18 GMT -6 strojanherefords said:

As you describe it, the situation with MSUD is more analogous to a pregnant woman asking an ultrasound technician not to tell her if her baby is a boy or a girl. The tech knows if there is a pole or a hole, he just doesn't tell the mother.

The AHA has changed their tests over the years and it has given them a look at specific genetic areas.  As stated above the entire genome is not sequenced during these tests.  The 2014-2017 tests luckily had the MSUD sequence inside the area they sequenced, they just did not know it at the time.  

The tests (outside of this window) focused on different areas and thus the MSUD data wasn't captured, thus the additional testing.

I haven't verified but I would think the MD defect resides in an area they hadn't already sequenced in previous test sequences.  This is based on how they handled the first wave of the 2014-2017 MSUD results which they tested AT NO ADDITIONAL COST on those animals.  Thus, a new test that targets the MD area of the genome was added as an option.

Testing can be ordered as:

MD stand alone = $20
Basic + GE-EPD + MD = $55
Basic + GE-EPD + HP + MD = $71

Only the MD included options were listed but others are available, please see your myHerd portal for current options and prices.

I would also agree that moving forward clearing up the Potential carriers would be ideal.  The fastest way to do it would be test bulls so they could clear all their progeny if they test as F, breaking the link to the C animal in the pedigree.  I'm sure there will be some grumbly breeders that will refuse to do anything and that's just sad.

[strojanherefords]

Resero Genomics offers DNA testing for parentage and 75 genetic defects for $35 off the shelf. Why then with the purchasing power of the AHA, that we have to pay $20 more for an inferior test?

[soherf]

Dec 7, 2021 16:04:29 GMT -6 strojanherefords said:

Resero Genomics offers DNA testing for parentage and 75 genetic defects for $35 off the shelf. Why then with the purchasing power of the AHA, that we have to pay $20 more for an inferior test?

Tell us what they say when you call and ask.

[strojanherefords]

I have talked to Resero and they seemed to be straightforward. I also talked to Mark St. Pierre about it when he was President of the AHA and he seemed out of the loop on any material issue.