Performance. Where to draw the line?

[fivestarherefords]

We just weaned our fall calves and had 6 heifers over 800 pounds with top being 862. It sure is fun to look at them but in the back of my mind I know these heifers are likely behind the 8 ball when it comes to productivity and longevity. I’m of the opinion that 600-650 heifers and 650-700 bulls are likely the sweet spot but do we honestly try to breed some performance out of them? And yes they have been creep fed but that isn’t getting cut through our muddy winters. Thoughts?

[cflory]

I guess I'm not sure why you creep feed if you don't want those weights. I will take weights in the next couple of weeks, if my bulls are in the 500s I will be happy but no creep, doormat native pasture, and a little alfalfa every other day. To answer your question, in my program I couldn't support that performance. Cows wouldn't breed back and calves would become almost stunted-like because of the lack of nutrients needed to support that kind of growth. If your environment will support that growth without outside inputs that put ROI in the negative Id say go for it but not here.

[strojanherefords]

This is why Herefords get discounted. A weaned heifer, creep fed to 800lbs, is spoilt and incapable of being a productive cow or a feeder. I want my heifers to be that size a year later as yearling coming off of grass. To be successful in any form of agriculture today, we have to push the envelope. That means getting heifers bred at as light of weight as possible.

[jjbcattleco]

Apr 4, 2021 20:49:25 GMT -6 strojanherefords said:

This is why Herefords get discounted. A weaned heifer, creep fed to 800lbs, is spoilt and incapable of being a productive cow or a feeder. I want my heifers to be that size a year later as yearling coming off of grass. To be successful in any form of agriculture today, we have to push the envelope. That means getting heifers bred at as light of weight as possible.

I'm not sure they need to weigh 800+ but I'm also not team light as possible. This all goes back pretty quickly to do what works best for you and your customers.

[fivestarherefords]

Apr 4, 2021 20:49:25 GMT -6 strojanherefords said:

This is why Herefords get discounted. A weaned heifer, creep fed to 800lbs, is spoilt and incapable of being a productive cow or a feeder. I want my heifers to be that size a year later as yearling coming off of grass. To be successful in any form of agriculture today, we have to push the envelope. That means getting heifers bred at as light of weight as possible.

You keep pushing your envelope that direction and I’ll keep going the other. We are in the birth to freezer business selling individual cuts in our retail market. We finish steers at 16 months with an average carcass weight of 800. I can assure you the type we are raising isn’t the reason for the Hereford discount.

[cflory]

Now that I feed everything out, I have toyed with the thought of creeping my calves. I think $50 upfront might pay going out by finishing sooner? Anyway it would be fun to see monster calves on the cows

[fivestarherefords]

Apr 7, 2021 7:29:03 GMT -6 cflory said:

Now that I feed everything out, I have toyed with the thought of creeping my calves. I think $50 upfront might pay going out by finishing sooner? Anyway it would be fun to see monster calves on the cows

I figure the creep feed costs me $75 per calf. Even with the creep feed the milking abilities of each cow are obvious at weaning. I’m not sure why so many people view it as some kind of witchcraft.

[timbernt]

I agree with five star creep feeding does not change weaning ratios. I also agree creeping calves is the most efficient use of grain in the entire life of an animal. We have over 50% of our calves in the fall. That means those cows eat low quality fescue hay during winter, so the forage they eat is marginal at best. Having a more nutrient dense feed available to the calves makes economic sense to me.

[elkwc]

Apr 7, 2021 18:43:36 GMT -6 fivestarherefords said:

Apr 7, 2021 7:29:03 GMT -6 cflory said:

Now that I feed everything out, I have toyed with the thought of creeping my calves. I think $50 upfront might pay going out by finishing sooner? Anyway it would be fun to see monster calves on the cows

I figure the creep feed costs me $75 per calf. Even with the creep feed the milking abilities of each cow are obvious at weaning. I’m not sure why so many people view it as some kind of witchcraft.

Creep feeding IMO is more beneficial for the PB. As a commercial breeder we creep in certain situations. We creep the fall calves, heifers calves and sometimes during severw drought. Last year during the drought we put out liquid feed for the cows and many of the calves ate it also. Way more cost efficient than creeping for us.

[George]

Regarding the creep feeding of heifers: My concern is that they get too fat and the added fat in their udders at an early age adversely affects their milking ability when they become brood cows.

[Sudsy]

George, I have always been led to believe this is the case. Is this the case or is it an urban myth?

[redgem]

Just my opinion, don't think I have seen research on it, but I believe it doesn't hurt milk production in young hiefers less than 7-8 month. I have seen many hiefers on high producing cows that have had more condition at weaning go on to milk well. I think it is more important to watch condition after 9-10 month as the hiefers come into puppetry.

Personally I think many who creep feed also push after weaning and do cause reduce milk production as cows.

[George]

Apr 25, 2021 2:31:17 GMT -6 Sudsy said:

George, I have always been led to believe this is the case. Is this the case or is it an urban myth?

Sudsy, there is a theory that "milk" skips a generation in the heavy milking cow lines, because a heavy milking cow will produce heifer calves that get "too fat" and they will have reduced milk capacity/flow compared to their mothers. Then the next generation of heifers will show the heavy milking trait again because their mothers weren't as heavy milkers.

One thing is certain in my mind! I've seen far too many scrawny calves sucking on their former show heifer mamas in my time!

[Sudsy]

George, I have heard on numerous occasions here in Australia that hiefers should not be shown, whether this be via voluntary omision or no platform made available for the opprtunity to show them.

[Sudsy]

BTW, found your explanation of milk skipping a generation quite fascinating. Not be a shower of animals, thus not mixing in their company all to regularly, I tend to miss some of these little "gems".

[redgem]

When I was showing beef hiefers I never keep my show string. Always said that once they had been in a leather halter they would not produce a calf worth keeping.