Registration option

[strojanherefords]

I don't see the issues that I have with the AHA being resolved by registering elsewhere. I also believe by registering elsewhere that relieves the AHA of any duty to treat me fairly. As far as I am concerned the AHA needs to be the place for Hereford cattle and if some breeders want to breed a Hereford based composite they should go elsewhere.

[George]

Jan 13, 2020 10:43:52 GMT -6 rosefield said:

IF, there is enough interest in a Heritage Hereford registry, registration rules would need to be according to what you as breeders want.  We are offering an opportunity for you as Hereford breeders for having a registry that does care about you and about the breed!

I have interest in an alternate registry, but I might be a minority of 1.

I had already made the decision to discontinue registering my cattle with the AHA. I was just going to opt to change the name of their breed, and I had accessed a program where I could keep up their pedigrees and print out a "registration paper", should anyone else want to participate. At 30 cows, I am pretty much a hobby breeder anyway.

I am not sure my cattle would qualify as "Heritage Herefords", since I have much the same genetic mush that so many other breeders have, maybe just a little different flavor.

[rosefield]

I just threw Heritage Hereford out there, you as a breeder group would specify the name to be used.

When breeders become disenchanted with a breed registry and no longer register their animal those genetics are lost to a breed.

How many of you register a limited number of animals, but if things were different or another option you would register more?

[1780]

Two comments

Redgem I am strongly believe that many innocent people have been sucked in by lies and deception of dishonest breeders and deliberately blind breed societies. You may not ahve purchased the bull to your great credit but others have believed the BS they have been told. The major phenotypical changes in the Hereford breed have been going on since at least the early 1970's if not earlier and while it is easy to look back now and say that "that is not a Hereford", incremental change over 50 years hides a lot of sins - people forget. When you compare the picture of any so called Herefords I now see in the glossy brochures with picture from the 1950's, anybody who thinks they are the same breed is playing with themselves.

Rosefield. In 2020 I don't think there is any place for a pedigree record system if it doesn't have a reference population from about 1960 and all animals registered are tested against it - as the paper your refer to has done - regardless of breed. There has been so much genetic corruption in animal breeding (dogs, cats, bovine, goats, poultry, pigs and the list is almost endless) that modern pedigrees stand for nothing and anybody who thinks they are a true and correct record has been living in a soap bubble on Mars.

[redgem]

1780

I'm all to aware of the issues that are in the purebreds of today. I spent the 70's and 80s showing beef cattle before work in the dairy industry. And I have even clipped the same hiefer for 2 different breed futurity shows. I'm also aware of all of money that floats the showring that comes from people who know nothing about cattle. And I've been told by farm management to keep my opinions to myself on more than one occasion.

However I'm a little surprised that a herd that was 90% hereford would see enough good in a bull that was 10%.

I know it's happened and some of the herds that did get caught up in the stuff have disappeared and I'm sorry for the one's that got side swiped. However with Internet and chats and some homework if you want to know and are not in it for the social club side you can find out what is out there.

Having said that I'd probably be more inclined to be back into purebreds if there were purity test of some sort available.

[1780]

Redgem. Thanks for your note and please accept this post is about transferring information. Just so you know, for the research we are conducting for which I am a sponsor, we have either tested or have access to WELL over 1000 DNA samples of "Herefords" from 3 continents spanning almost 70 years. Following analysis of all, we can say there is only 1 consistent theme coming through and that is that between all 3 continents there is a high genetic correlation between the original Herefords. For everything else you might just as well stand back and fire a shot gun albeit there are patterns which are generally inconsistent between continents but there are some overlaps. We have also conducted breed composition analysis on all and here are just a couple of insights. There are registered animals out there whose breed composition is such that they are more Angus, more Holstein and more Simmental/ Limousin than they are Hereford. There are registered Hereford animals out there that are registered with more than one breed society and believe this or not, there are registered Herefords out there with less than 10% Hereford content. I know that is hard to believe because I didn't believe it initially either but when we went back and scanned the data of the animals about which had anecdotal information, in general they were placed about where we would expect. I cant speak for what the bull was like however the breeder had a pretty good reputation on that basis alone I wouldn't have thought that he would have brought something that he didn't think would add value to his herd. The other point I will make is that we have been a little surprised at what we have seen in full sibling, some of which are mine. While the variation is nothing huge, the difference is more than we thought we would see with full siblings which some seems to challenge the notion that an animal inherits 50% from each parent. On the other hand we have a set of identical twins in the tests and the relative relationship is exactly where you would expect it to be. 

[redgem]

I would have expected Maines on that list of breeds but as I'm thinking about it maybe they produced to many cow killer's so were short lived addition.

I understand it takes time but I'm hoping for some of the research your supporting to be published soon. I'm expecting it to create some waves however like you I do believe we need some kind of purity test and not just for hereford.

[rosefield]

Jan 16, 2020 8:48:42 GMT -6 redgem said:

I do believe we need some kind of purity test and not just for Hereford.

I think that as genomics continues to improve that BBR for all breeds will be very important to assure some form of breed purity.  While some breeds having a BBR will not be too difficult other breeds will be more challenging as in the last 50 or so years some breeds have been infused with other breed genetics.  Other breeds have also been developed!

In the post by 1780 it is good to know the relationship of a breed from different continents as how related they are as this will aid in keeping a breed no matter what continent or country they are in having a singular BBR test that will work for whatever breed.

[strojanherefords]

Jan 13, 2020 16:35:24 GMT -6 rosefield said:

I just threw Heritage Hereford out there, you as a breeder group would specify the name to be used.

When breeders become disenchanted with a breed registry and no longer register their animal those genetics are lost to a breed.

How many of you register a limited number of animals, but if things were different or another option you would register more?

I would. I need to have more cows to broaden my genetic base but to do that I need to see value at the commercial marketplace for my registered cattle.  

[rosefield]

Over the weekend I have done lots of reading about the problems breeders are expressing not only with the AHA, CHA and other Hereford registries and societies in other countries as well.  We went back and read the thread on the HT purity, posts on Facebook and also comments from breeders on websites.  To say the least it has certainly been an interesting read.

Certainly at the top of the issue is the lack of the registries and societies in researching and learning more about the research that has and is being done in regard to the purity of the Hereford breed.  From the reading and from breeders postings to research postings is has been documented that the Hereford breed has had some outside breed influences.  While that is a given, it seems that most of the registries and societies want to discredit these findings and facts.

There are those on HT that know more about the purity research than I do, but I am sure that to make sure that this research is accurate and can hold up against challenges will be extremely important.

From 1780:
For my part I would like to see an international register and unsurprising to all it would need to have at the top of the tree animals that can prove their breed integrity and this could well include currently unregistered animals that prove their integrity. But under that, breeders who have got innocently sucked in to this genetic corruption, and that is the majority, they should not be left to their own resources to die with the traditional breed societies who spend their lives trying to make bad things look better. We need a way to make a good things look better! These breeders deserve and need a place to register their cattle AND breed back if that is their desire while their cattle remain registered.

I think that as 1780 pointed out the ALL animals need to be grandfathered in.  We do not want to leave anybody out, and as was stated there are many breeders who were "innocently sucked in" and should not be penalized.

With a purity test, then all animals that pass the purity test can be identified as "Heritage Hereford" (or whatever is decided by breeders to call them).  Once both males and females have been identified as "Heritage Hereford" then a parentage test should be able to qualify them as a Heritage animal.  Papers with a blue border?

The rest of the Hereford population would continue and register as a "Modern Hereford".  Papers with a Red border"

With a purity test what do we need to do about animals that can pass a purity test but have not registered?  Could these animals could come into the registry as an appendix animal?  If the ancestry is known, certainly documenting it would be of importance.  But more importantly how many generations would YOU as breeders feel that there needs to be before allowing them into the "Heritage" section of a herdbook?  These animals could be identified with brackets {1} first generation, {2} second generation, etc. as part of their name.

EPD's are another concern.  While to some EPD's have some value, they can ONLY be of importance when accurate information is used.  With that said, if an animals is not a "pure" animal an accurate EPD cannot be calculated unless all known breed makeup and percentages are know.  From some of the comments, this was also an issue that was brought up by ABRI.

EPD's and how to handle and offer performance and genetic potential will be up to an advisory board and the membership.

I think that after reading all of the comments that these issues are of interest to breeders everywhere and in the interest seen here of breeders from other countries wishing to work together, I think that having an International Registry would be the proper way to go.  Also would need an advisory board for some decisions and beyond that let the membership be involved in some of the decisions.

One thing that was brought up was that need to go back to the 60's:

1780's comment was. "In 2020 I don't think there is any place for a pedigree record system if it doesn't have a reference population from about 1960 and all animals registered are tested against it"

That should not be a problem.  In our other registry databases on some ancestry we can go back over 100 years.

As I have seen at the bottom of someone else's posts:

"Let's make Herefords great again!"

[1780]

Rosefield. I have read with great interest your latest post and it is no good jumping to and promoting solutions to the register problems if you haven't studied the history of the breed. You will never solve any problem unless you are prepared to visit, understand and act on the history of the problem. In summary, ignorance is NOT bliss. The defining moment for Hereford breed purity is about 1870 (I will need to check the exact date) when our forefathers determined that the animal that had been developed in the Marshes of Herefordshire UK had reached a point when they wanted to cement its characteristics in stone - so to speak. At that time THE HEREFORD HERD BOOK under the custodianship of THE Hereford Herd Book Society (as it was known at that time) was the international repository of ALL Hereford animal pedigree information. If you have a look in the early volumes you will see instances that international breeders used both THE Hereford Herd Book Society and the Hereford Herd books as THE authority. What happened in about 1870 is that the Council of THE Hereford Cattle Society (of which my Great Grandfather was a member) set in stone by a resolution that was written into the Memorandum and Articles of Association of THE Hereford Herd Book Society that NO animal would be registered into the Hereford Herd Book UNLESS both its DAM and SIRE were also registered in the Hereford Herd Book. International breed societies ALL followed suit (the US set an earlier date by about a year I think). Furthermore in about 1970 the World Hereford Council repeated this intent. THUS what Purity was and still is was set and this is the only animal that has the right to be described as a Hereford, no ifs buts or ands. If an animal is not pure and gentic testing has shown this is the case in the majority of so called modern animals, by definition they do not qualify to be a Hereford as defined by the breed societies themselves - not me. So, as for your uninformed suggestion that we call these animals "Heritage Herefords", go and think again - You are trying to rebrand both the Hereford and the current animal into something that neither are. So how do we know today what the Hereford is when there has been a 100 year gap where breeder integrity was the determining factor but where all sorts of skulduggery has been perpetrated in the breed and for just one example of this we need to go no further than Gammon's claim about the origin of the Poll Hereford - that science has shown to be a lie. Simply, there was NO imported animals into the UK from ANY country until some time in the 1970's (again need to check the exact date) and we have semen going back into the 1950's so we know the base. Secondly, there is a high correlation in both the DNA and unique Hereford genetic sequences that define it from the modern animal between populations on 3 continents with animals being both geographically and genetically separated for more than 150 years in some cases - with the single exception of imported UK genetics. The probability of producing genetically identical animals thus separated is so close to zero it iszero. This cannot be said about the modern animal that is genetically diverse in and of itself and across continents. So, in summary, if you want to start a discussion about what the name of the modern animal should be, be my guest but one thing that will never change regardless of all the skulduggery the breed societies want to play is that a Hereford is a Hereford and it's purity was defined by the breed societies themselves about 150 years ago and reinforced by the World Hereford Council about 50 years ago. Accordingly your suggestions actually contradicts the established intent and definitions set by our forefathers and would make your register just as wrong as the breed societies current registers and you wouldn't want to do that would you?  Finally, rather than trying to use a single piece of good research (we have spoken to the authors) to promote your alternate breed register, how about you wait to see what the Hereford specific research tells you. Furthermore, if you want to try to contribute to the significant investment me and others have made to determine what Hereford breed purity looks like genetically, something the breed societies should be doing but have declined the invitations to participate, we will be happy to take your money.  Just contact me to let me know how much you are prepared to throw in the hat seeing it is clear you will profit from our research. 

[rockmillsherefords]

there was NO imported animals into the UK from ANY country until some time in the 1970's (again need to check the exact date)

Splitting hairs I know, charolais where in the UK in the 60's

[1780]

Rockmills, you may well be correct. As I said I would need to check the date. The main point is that I can say for certain we have semen from quite a list of bulls that predates the import of other breeds and genetics into the UK. We have also found Australian semen that matches this early UK supply and we didn't have the same import restrictions. The earlisst know imports were polled Herefords from the US. I wrote in your previous comment on HT how we are free of foot and mouth. One of the reason is that it took the sailing ships so long to get here any disease that showed up in cattle on board ended up in the bottom of the South Atlantic, Indian or Pacific Oceans - pity the foxes and rabbits didn't end up there as well.

[strojanherefords]

Jan 20, 2020 18:32:28 GMT -6 1780 said:

Rosefield. I have read with great interest your latest post and it is no good jumping to and promoting solutions to the register problems if you haven't studied the history of the breed. You will never solve any problem unless you are prepared to visit, understand and act on the history of the problem. In summary, ignorance is NOT bliss. The defining moment for Hereford breed purity is about 1870 (I will need to check the exact date) when our forefathers determined that the animal that had been developed in the Marshes of Herefordshire UK had reached a point when they wanted to cement its characteristics in stone - so to speak. At that time THE HEREFORD HERD BOOK under the custodianship of THE Hereford Herd Book Society (as it was known at that time) was the international repository of ALL Hereford animal pedigree information. If you have a look in the early volumes you will see instances that international breeders used both THE Hereford Herd Book Society and the Hereford Herd books as THE authority. What happened in about 1870 is that the Council of THE Hereford Cattle Society (of which my Great Grandfather was a member) set in stone by a resolution that was written into the Memorandum and Articles of Association of THE Hereford Herd Book Society that NO animal would be registered into the Hereford Herd Book UNLESS both its DAM and SIRE were also registered in the Hereford Herd Book. International breed societies ALL followed suit (the US set an earlier date by about a year I think). Furthermore in about 1970 the World Hereford Council repeated this intent. THUS what Purity was and still is was set and this is the only animal that has the right to be described as a Hereford, no ifs buts or ands. If an animal is not pure and gentic testing has shown this is the case in the majority of so called modern animals, by definition they do not qualify to be a Hereford as defined by the breed societies themselves - not me. So, as for your uninformed suggestion that we call these animals "Heritage Herefords", go and think again - You are trying to rebrand both the Hereford and the current animal into something that neither are. So how do we know today what the Hereford is when there has been a 100 year gap where breeder integrity was the determining factor but where all sorts of skulduggery has been perpetrated in the breed and for just one example of this we need to go no further than Gammon's claim about the origin of the Poll Hereford - that science has shown to be a lie. Simply, there was NO imported animals into the UK from ANY country until some time in the 1970's (again need to check the exact date) and we have semen going back into the 1950's so we know the base. Secondly, there is a high correlation in both the DNA and unique Hereford genetic sequences that define it from the modern animal between populations on 3 continents with animals being both geographically and genetically separated for more than 150 years in some cases - with the single exception of imported UK genetics. The probability of producing genetically identical animals thus separated is so close to zero it iszero. This cannot be said about the modern animal that is genetically diverse in and of itself and across continents. So, in summary, if you want to start a discussion about what the name of the modern animal should be, be my guest but one thing that will never change regardless of all the skulduggery the breed societies want to play is that a Hereford is a Hereford and it's purity was defined by the breed societies themselves about 150 years ago and reinforced by the World Hereford Council about 50 years ago. Accordingly your suggestions actually contradicts the established intent and definitions set by our forefathers and would make your register just as wrong as the breed societies current registers and you wouldn't want to do that would you?  Finally, rather than trying to use a single piece of good research (we have spoken to the authors) to promote your alternate breed register, how about you wait to see what the Hereford specific research tells you. Furthermore, if you want to try to contribute to the significant investment me and others have made to determine what Hereford breed purity looks like genetically, something the breed societies should be doing but have declined the invitations to participate, we will be happy to take your money.  Just contact me to let me know how much you are prepared to throw in the hat seeing it is clear you will profit from our research. 

I agree with the sentiment that the Hereford name and related intellectual property should stay with the cattle that conform to the standards of the original population.  But on a practical level, there needs to be a recognition that there are a lot of passionate Hereford people, whose cattle have some outside blood in them.  

[1780]

Strojenherefords. I couldn't agree more with you. There are so many people who have got innocently caught up in this that morally you cannot take their livelihood away from them by the flick of a switch. Where I draw the line is the Boards of the breed Societies and their senior executives who know about the genetic corruption and are so intellectually and morally deficient they have not only let innocent breeders keep thinking they are breeding Herefords they have continually rolled out a number of very boring excuses all of which are so shallow you would break your neck if you was swimming.  If I can believe the posts on this forum its these same people who have profited most from the deception and they have done this at least since the 1970's . Some common excuses are: tell me that mistakes were never made in the past identifying parentage, they are just another strain of the breed, we will stand on our reputation look at how we have excluded the British Poll, and it goes on and on. The only mistake the British Poll Hereford People made was to tell the truth about there being another breed in the animal. I am not sure what the solution to this dilemma really is and to be honest I am not sure that finding it lies with the breeders of the real Hereford. Breeders who fall into the other category need to be telling the breed societies they need to get some moral fortitude and open up and be honest. Then they need to instruct them on how they see the matter resolved so that meaningful and constructive negotiations can happen. If the breeders of THE Hereford start arbitrarily deciding how it all fits together they will be no better than the boards and senior executives of the breed societies are now and I for one don't want to lower my standards. Interestingly I have been told that a director of Herefords Australia has acknowledge there is a problem, has also said he doesn't know how it can be resolved apart from drawing a line in the sand and then noting more.  My suggestion to that Director if they happen to be a follower of HT, you have the science (I sent it to you), you know the modern animal is a different breed, why are you setting a new standard for yourself to the exclusion of breeders who have honoured and respected the integrity of the breed over many decades.  

[rosefield]

Jan 20, 2020 18:32:28 GMT -6 1780 said:

Rosefield. I have read with great interest your latest post and it is no good jumping to and promoting solutions to the register problems if you haven't studied the history of the breed. You will never solve any problem unless you are prepared to visit, understand and act on the history of the problem. In summary, ignorance is NOT bliss. The defining moment for Hereford breed purity is about 1870 (I will need to check the exact date) when our forefathers determined that the animal that had been developed in the Marshes of Herefordshire UK had reached a point when they wanted to cement its characteristics in stone - so to speak. At that time THE HEREFORD HERD BOOK under the custodianship of THE Hereford Herd Book Society (as it was known at that time) was the international repository of ALL Hereford animal pedigree information. If you have a look in the early volumes you will see instances that international breeders used both THE Hereford Herd Book Society and the Hereford Herd books as THE authority. What happened in about 1870 is that the Council of THE Hereford Cattle Society (of which my Great Grandfather was a member) set in stone by a resolution that was written into the Memorandum and Articles of Association of THE Hereford Herd Book Society that NO animal would be registered into the Hereford Herd Book UNLESS both its DAM and SIRE were also registered in the Hereford Herd Book. International breed societies ALL followed suit (the US set an earlier date by about a year I think). Furthermore in about 1970 the World Hereford Council repeated this intent. THUS what Purity was and still is was set and this is the only animal that has the right to be described as a Hereford, no ifs buts or ands. If an animal is not pure and gentic testing has shown this is the case in the majority of so called modern animals, by definition they do not qualify to be a Hereford as defined by the breed societies themselves - not me. So, as for your uninformed suggestion that we call these animals "Heritage Herefords", go and think again - You are trying to rebrand both the Hereford and the current animal into something that neither are. So how do we know today what the Hereford is when there has been a 100 year gap where breeder integrity was the determining factor but where all sorts of skulduggery has been perpetrated in the breed and for just one example of this we need to go no further than Gammon's claim about the origin of the Poll Hereford - that science has shown to be a lie. Simply, there was NO imported animals into the UK from ANY country until some time in the 1970's (again need to check the exact date) and we have semen going back into the 1950's so we know the base. Secondly, there is a high correlation in both the DNA and unique Hereford genetic sequences that define it from the modern animal between populations on 3 continents with animals being both geographically and genetically separated for more than 150 years in some cases - with the single exception of imported UK genetics. The probability of producing genetically identical animals thus separated is so close to zero it iszero. This cannot be said about the modern animal that is genetically diverse in and of itself and across continents. So, in summary, if you want to start a discussion about what the name of the modern animal should be, be my guest but one thing that will never change regardless of all the skulduggery the breed societies want to play is that a Hereford is a Hereford and it's purity was defined by the breed societies themselves about 150 years ago and reinforced by the World Hereford Council about 50 years ago. Accordingly your suggestions actually contradicts the established intent and definitions set by our forefathers and would make your register just as wrong as the breed societies current registers and you wouldn't want to do that would you?  Finally, rather than trying to use a single piece of good research (we have spoken to the authors) to promote your alternate breed register, how about you wait to see what the Hereford specific research tells you. Furthermore, if you want to try to contribute to the significant investment me and others have made to determine what Hereford breed purity looks like genetically, something the breed societies should be doing but have declined the invitations to participate, we will be happy to take your money.  Just contact me to let me know how much you are prepared to throw in the hat seeing it is clear you will profit from our research. 

I feel that you have misunderstood the intentions of what we are offering.  Our intention IS NOT to take over the breed organizations, and if that is what some were thinking maybe I didn't make myself clear.  So I will try to explain it differently.

What we are offering with our registry is an option for breeders that have been or are fed up with the breed organizations that have made the comment, "I wish I had somewhere else to register my animals"!  These are breeders that already have animals that are not registered and have no intentions of registering them with the breed organization.  We don't care if it is one breeder, five breeders, 10 breeders, 100 breeders or how many there are, to us they and their animals are important and if they wish to band together as a group to keep a record of the ancestry, other information and services, that should be their choice.

Here in the United States, there have been times where a breed organization has split because of various reasons and a second registry was started.  I think their are just a handful that even a 3rd one was started.

If these breeders are fed up with the breed organizations, are they to be ostracized and forbidden to have any kind of pedigree to document the ancestry of their animals?  Is it wrong for those breeders to join together in a common interest?  Is the hard work and love of the breed by these breeders to be dismissed because they are fed up with the breed organizations?

Furthermore, if you want to try to contribute to the significant investment me and others have made to determine what Hereford breed purity looks like genetically, something the breed societies should be doing but have declined the invitations to participate, we will be happy to take your money. Just contact me to let me know how much you are prepared to throw in the hat seeing it is clear you will profit from our research.

As far as contributing to the research, we would be more that happy to contribute to research from each registration that we process, but for us to do so without a reason (members and registrations) does not make sense.  IF breeders that are interested in using our services do so, then that is a different story.  This is not a cop out, it is just good business!

strojanherefords, I agree with the sentiment that the Hereford name and related intellectual property should stay with the cattle that conform to the standards of the original population. But on a practical level, there needs to be a recognition that there are a lot of passionate Hereford people, whose cattle have some outside blood in them.

If the breeders that wish to use our registry and their foundation animals are registered with the breed organization, do they not conform to the standards?  The pedigrees on their animals can all be traced back to the original herdbooks!  I certainly understand and do not want any confusion of the breed between the breed organizations and ours.  Is it wrong that these passionate breeders have worked hard to breed what they are calling "Traditional" or "Heritage" Herefords?  They have tried to use genetics from sources and breeders that they felt that did not have any other breed influence.

I wholeheartedly agree that the best place that Hereford animals should be registered is with the breed organizations.  BUT, when those very same breed organization refuse to listen and offer some form of solution to its members and instead make them feel they are of no value to the breed or organization, what are they to do?

We have had breeders of other breeds come to us asking if we could help them because their own organizations were unwilling to do anything.  Understanding their problems, we told them that our organization is here if we can be of service.  Those breeders went back and presented to their boards that if they chose not to offer some sort of solution to their breeder members they would take their business elsewhere.  Most of the time those organizations made concessions to work with its members and find a solution.  It is unfortunate that organizations cannot work with its members and breeders in a viable solution that everyone can work with!

As I have mentioned, even though we represent what many refer to as the "non-traditional" diary breeds, our philosophy is different in that we are willing to help breeders of ALL breeds that ask us for help.  No, it may not be in the form of registrations as most of the time it is helping them straighten out animal identification.  We are not breed blind and consider breeders of all breed relevant.

[oldduffer]

Jan 13, 2020 11:57:49 GMT -6 strojanherefords said:

I don't see the issues that I have with the AHA being resolved by registering elsewhere. I also believe by registering elsewhere that relieves the AHA of any duty to treat me fairly. As far as I am concerned the AHA needs to be the place for Hereford cattle and if some breeders want to breed a Hereford based composite they should go elsewhere.

Strojan - I have to agree with you on this one. The AHA needs to become the "American HEREFORD Association"!   The ship is off course and the Captain and Crew seem content to go full steam ahead even though we have taken on countless Holstein, Simmie, Chi, etc, and now a significant number of Red Angus passengers.  How do you propose we go about turning the ship around.

Let's make Herefords GREAT again!!!!!!!

[redgem]

the breeders that wish to use our registry and their foundation animals are registered with the breed organization, do they not conform to the standards?

Read more: herefordtalk.com/thread/3727/registration-option?page=2#ixzz6BhphksH8


In my opinion NO.

Having another registry doesn't do anything for the issues in and of itself. Unless you're going to purity test and list % hereford as I can already seach the AHA or CHA sites and cross off the animals that I don't want.

However I'm sure that for every bull I know about there's probably one I don't so without the purity test another registry doesn't help.

And no I'm not likely to go back to registering again even if there's another registry. Easier to buy a few hereford hiefers.

[oldduffer]

As Sam Rayburn said: "Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a good carpenter to build one." The Association "BARN" is leaning bad and needs a LOT of work, and needs to be cleaned out. The question is: are there enough good carpenters out here to get it fixed up? I for one think their are. Time to step up to the plate.


"Let's make HEREFORDS great again!!!!!!!!!!"