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Post by timbernt on Oct 13, 2019 20:18:56 GMT -6
I imagine most breeders in this part of the world will agree that BW increase as we progress thru the fall calving season. How does this impact the BW ratios? If you AI, your cleanup bulls calves come later in the season and the environment naturally makes them bigger even if genetics are not involved. If you are an EPD breeder, how do you adjust?
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Post by cflory on Oct 16, 2019 4:54:04 GMT -6
I had never thought of that until this year. Usually, our temperatures are somewhat steady through calving but my first couple calves came when it was the upper 90s and now the last two are experiencing below freezing. My first two were bull breed, then a group from AI and now finishing with bull again. I only run a 60 window so I wont be impacted like someone that runs 120 days. Good way to skew numbers in your favor. Are you thinking of building a calving ease epd Canadian sire?
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Post by larso on Oct 16, 2019 13:51:18 GMT -6
I imagine most breeders in this part of the world will agree that BW increase as we progress thru the fall calving season. How does this impact the BW ratios? If you AI, your cleanup bulls calves come later in the season and the environment naturally makes them bigger even if genetics are not involved. If you are an EPD breeder, how do you adjust? You can’t adjust, that’s what makes it a fallacy. Everybody I talk to are having dramatic reductions in calf BW’s due to the severe drought conditions eastern Australia is experiencing at the moment. So I would like to see how the academics are going to formulate a computer program to make the adjustments, but as we all know not only BW is effected, weaning weight, milk , time to re breed etc it is a real mess and on top of all that there probably won’t be any females left the way they are getting their heads cut off currently. It is close to be coming a national disaster and there appears to be no respite forecasted. |
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Post by timbernt on Oct 17, 2019 5:53:12 GMT -6
Clint, the 66A bull from XTC is a true calving ease bull along with another straight Canadian bull from Byron (23W). I am building a small low birth weight group around them. It isn't a major focus. As far as EPD's go, our customers are commercial guys who distrust them, and marketing would be the primary reason to have them at this time. I am just trying to solidify in my mind how much the phenotype we see such as BW is influenced by environment and how much truly is genetic.
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Post by strojanherefords on Oct 17, 2019 19:08:34 GMT -6
To follow up Tim's question: When do birth-weights get too light and we start getting preemie calves? At this point, I feel that birthweight and calving ease EPDs are just fear mongering.
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Post by Glenn on Oct 18, 2019 8:40:50 GMT -6
When do birth-weights get too light and we start getting preemie calves? Not an answer to your question, but I do believe this is a big problem with Angus and the decades long push for LWB, short gestation, and "curvebenders". The short gestation has led to lung development "issues" (total my opinion) and is causing some "blowback" for straight Angus calves by feeders. Has this made a dent in "black mystique"? NO but it is out there and being discussed. |
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Post by elkwc on Oct 18, 2019 9:11:50 GMT -6
When do birth-weights get too light and we start getting preemie calves? Not an answer to your question, but I do believe this is a big problem with Angus and the decades long push for LWB, short gestation, and "curvebenders". The short gestation has led to lung development "issues" (total my opinion) and is causing some "blowback" for straight Angus calves by feeders. Has this made a dent in "black mystique"? NO but it is out there and being discussed. Glenn another issue many breeders here talk about a lot with Angus is small pelvic area on retained heifers. I asked an Angus breeder this year to send me info on every bull that had an actual BW of 80 or over. He had around 25 bulls and not a single one over 75. But 2 under 60. Have aeen a few Hereforda similar. |
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redgem
Weanling
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Post by redgem on Oct 18, 2019 9:52:35 GMT -6
I believe that as feedlots are forced to use less hormones and antibiotics the premmie issue will show up as a bigger problem. The use of low birth weight bulls for generations has caused feedlots to use antibiotics and hormones to get the desired results for performance. Thus they have not forced the cow calf sector to balance birth weights. It will be an issue soon.
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redgem
Weanling
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Post by redgem on Oct 18, 2019 10:06:12 GMT -6
Dad always split his herd to calf spring and fall. There was a definite difference between the two groups as to birth weight.
Also low birth weight and calving easy are not always the same. When dad used Maines in the 70's the first ones didn't increase birth weight more than a pound or two but many locked at the hip. Shape of the calf at the shoulder and hips can be more of an problem than a couple pounds.
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