|
|
Post by George on Sept 25, 2019 7:12:49 GMT -6
A person is asking for semen on S Titan 7777 over on Facebook.
I have 9 straws. Should I let him have them?
|
|
|
|
Post by cflory on Sept 25, 2019 11:05:06 GMT -6
Yes. We all agree bulls from that time period were better than we have today so let them produce one for us. Jokes aside I would like to see what they came up with and what their plans were
|
|
|
|
Post by George on Sept 25, 2019 11:12:46 GMT -6
Yes. We all agree bulls from that time period were better than we have today so let them produce one for us. Jokes aside I would like to see what they came up with and what their plans were He says he has a commercial herd of 20 Hereford and 20 Angus cows and wants to add the Titan 7777 influence because he was a great bull. He is aware of his DLC status and aware that 7777 is probably 1/8th to 1/4th Simmental. If the semen was going to be used to produce registered Herefords, I would not even consider letting him use it. |
|
|
|
Post by franklinridgefarms on Sept 25, 2019 11:53:10 GMT -6
Yes. We all agree bulls from that time period were better than we have today so let them produce one for us. Jokes aside I would like to see what they came up with and what their plans were He says he has a commercial herd of 20 Hereford and 20 Angus cows and wants to add the Titan 7777 influence because he was a great bull. He is aware of his DLC status and aware that 7777 is probably 1/8th to 1/4th Simmental. If the semen was going to be used to produce registered Herefords, I would not even consider letting him use it. I'm not a registered breeder ( we just have some registered females and bull to produce bulls for our commercial herd ) so my take on the subject is pretty well useless, but that's never stopped me from giving my two cents worth. I'm the character that raised the calf that was posted on here with the white stripe across the shoulders a couple years ago. That was from a bull that born from registered sire and dam, which I never registered the bull. We liked the calves of that bull, they had some frame and grow. They also had some downsides too seemed like the calves had a lot of white, then the stripe calves happened twice. Some of the calves had an unexplainable flighty temperament not consistent with what a typical Hereford should have. We sold the bull, and have had two other registered bulls since, none of the off markings and disposition issues from their calves. I know nothing about the Titan bull, but my take is that if someone has used him before and know what to expect then I would not have an issue with letting it go for commercial use. |
|
|
|
Post by rockmillsherefords on Sept 25, 2019 13:13:32 GMT -6
Has much stuff I write on here about Herefords being half breds. selling straws to a known genetic abnormality carrier would bother me, commercial or not.
George, on a different subject, not long ago I read over on CT where you've been having a rough time lately, hope you're feeling better.
|
|
|
|
Post by randy on Sept 25, 2019 13:55:09 GMT -6
Not to change the subject at hand. I have been around situations where a breeder had bulls that were carriers of genetic defects. They offered them for sale without papers as commercial bulls. I personally never felt good about that situation. The are multiple reasons as to why but the one that I came back to is straight forward. I would never want to be a part of propagation of any defect. I would can the carriers and not sell semen. Just my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Post by George on Sept 25, 2019 16:05:13 GMT -6
Just so everyone knows, I wasn't going to sell the semen to him. If I did anything, I would just GIVE it to him.
The DLC status was a hangup for me. But I got schooled pretty good over on CT by a Simmental breeder who said that the diluter gene IS NOT a disorder, as far as she is concerned. Apparently, its presence is not that uncommon in Simmental and other breeds. In a commercial setting, is using 7777 any different than using one of those Simmental bulls?
When I found that 3 of my 4 herd bulls were HYC, I started purging it from my herd. In hindsight, several years down the road, I feel that the best course I could have taken would have been to just stayed the course, tested,and eventually bred my way out of the problem, instead of purging otherwise really good cattle.
Handled responsibly, DL could also be managed in the same way in a herd.
Thanks for all your opinions. And I welcome any more that are posted. I haven't yet made up my mind what I'm going to do.
Paul, as far as my health, it has been a challenging 3 years. I also lost a 1200 acre lease in June, where I had been keeping most of my cattle. It had been for sale for a decade and part of it finally sold. And I'll lose another lease on December 31. I think it is time for me to read the signs and slow way down. I am down to 33 cows and heifers and I need to cut that number in about half by December. I am giving serious consideration to putting the whole bunch up for sale.
|
|
|
|
Post by strojanherefords on Sept 25, 2019 23:01:41 GMT -6
Just so everyone knows, I wasn't going to sell the semen to him. If I did anything, I would just GIVE it to him. The DLC status was a hangup for me. But I got schooled pretty good over on CT by a Simmental breeder who said that the diluter gene IS NOT a disorder, as far as she is concerned. Apparently, its presence is not that uncommon in Simmental and other breeds. In a commercial setting, is using 7777 any different than using one of those Simmental bulls? When I found that 3 of my 4 herd bulls were HYC, I started purging it from my herd. In hindsight, several years down the road, I feel that the best course I could have taken would have been to just stayed the course, tested,and eventually bred my way out of the problem, instead of purging otherwise really good cattle. Handled responsibly, DL could also be managed in the same way in a herd. Thanks for all your opinions. And I welcome any more that are posted. I haven't yet made up my mind what I'm going to do. Paul, as far as my health, it has been a challenging 3 years. I also lost a 1200 acre lease in June, where I had been keeping most of my cattle. It had been for sale for a decade and part of it finally sold. And I'll lose another lease on December 31. I think it is time for me to read the signs and slow way down. I am down to 33 cows and heifers and I need to cut that number in about half by December. I am giving serious consideration to putting the whole bunch up for sale. From what I have heard, the first continental semen exported was from bulls that had issues that caused them not to be used in their home country. George, if you are going to sell out, I hope that you can find a buyer who will keep the cattle going. |
|
|
|
Post by allenw on Sept 26, 2019 7:32:50 GMT -6
George I seen that post on CT, she missed the whole point that it is a problem in the Hereford breed because it isn't supposed to be present.
|
|
|
|
Post by Glenn on Sept 26, 2019 7:38:39 GMT -6
Exactly, dilution of color on coat is not a problem in and of itself. Charolais is an example of dilution gene with wide acceptance in the commercial world. The problem is a "Hereford" problem. It should NOT be present in our gene pool.
|
|
|
|
Post by franklinridgefarms on Sept 26, 2019 17:23:07 GMT -6
George I seen that post on CT, she missed the whole point that it is a problem in the Hereford breed because it isn't supposed to be present. I can second your take on that, while I respect that contributor on CT, she does seem to bring everything back around to Simmentals. Most folks are aware of diluter genes in Simmentals, you are correct it is an issue in Herefords since it should not be present. |
|
|
|
Post by rockmillsherefords on Sept 27, 2019 11:31:32 GMT -6
Just so everyone knows, I wasn't going to sell the semen to him. If I did anything, I would just GIVE it to him. The DLC status was a hangup for me. But I got schooled pretty good over on CT by a Simmental breeder who said that the diluter gene IS NOT a disorder, as far as she is concerned. Apparently, its presence is not that uncommon in Simmental and other breeds. In a commercial setting, is using 7777 any different than using one of those Simmental bulls? When I found that 3 of my 4 herd bulls were HYC, I started purging it from my herd. In hindsight, several years down the road, I feel that the best course I could have taken would have been to just stayed the course, tested,and eventually bred my way out of the problem, instead of purging otherwise really good cattle. Handled responsibly, DL could also be managed in the same way in a herd. Thanks for all your opinions. And I welcome any more that are posted. I haven't yet made up my mind what I'm going to do. Paul, as far as my health, it has been a challenging 3 years. I also lost a 1200 acre lease in June, where I had been keeping most of my cattle. It had been for sale for a decade and part of it finally sold. And I'll lose another lease on December 31. I think it is time for me to read the signs and slow way down. I am down to 33 cows and heifers and I need to cut that number in about half by December. I am giving serious consideration to putting the whole bunch up for sale. Health more important than cows, hopefully you're on the mend. |
|
redgem
Weanling
Enter your message here...
Posts: 107 
|
Post by redgem on Sept 27, 2019 12:02:41 GMT -6
Would there be any different in using 7777 in an AI program than some of the club calf bulls?
Also I have bought register hereford hiefers and used 3/4 simme bulls as often I can by the herefords cheaper than 1/2 half simmies.
If he knows what he is getting I don't see a problem with it. Diulter is manageable in simmies.
|
|
|
|
Post by guffeygal on Sept 28, 2019 5:29:39 GMT -6
Some people have pretty short memories. Have seen where some cattle are named Encore and even Larry recently. It recalls their namesakes to me even though they are not related.
|
|
|
|
Post by timbernt on Sept 28, 2019 19:52:02 GMT -6
What is even worse is that most have no memory. No personal or family or mentor memory to serve as a guide for breeding Herefords. No memory of past errors or what pedigrees were a problem. No memory of what makes a Hereford a Hereford. No memory and thus no concern the generations of progress are being discarded.
|
|
|
|
Post by George on Sept 28, 2019 22:23:04 GMT -6
What is even worse is that most have no memory. No personal or family or mentor memory to serve as a guide for breeding Herefords. No memory of past errors or what pedigrees were a problem. No memory of what makes a Hereford a Hereford. No memory and thus no concern the generations of progress are being discarded. Why would you need any of that when you have EPDs? |
|
|
|
Post by timbernt on Sept 29, 2019 4:20:26 GMT -6
Exactly. Those who look down their nose at us old crabs that find epd's and genomics inaccurate need to understand our reasons. Most of us have tried their way and found what we get from the association to be less accurate than we want and actually misleading. We have not regressed, we have simply found our "memory" more reliable.
|
|
|
|
Post by randy on Sept 29, 2019 22:23:15 GMT -6
Hmmm... I certainly haven't forgotten 7777... I was there at Montana Winter Fair ROM when Art Linton put him up as Grand Champion as a calf and then I was in Denver when John McKnight put him up as Denver Champion. Then the was the "Hulk" bull...lmao... Mr Incredible or what in the hell flying buffalo chips you wanted to call him. I have not forgotten the offspring either. Today there are many cattle with that bull and others in the pedigrees of "famous" sires. Some say that they are buried far enough back in the pedigree that it does not matter. I say Buffalo Chips. There are so many cattle that have this "pickle" or that "pickle" in their pedigrees today it is hard to find many cattle that I would consider decent. Just my opinion...
|
|
|
|
Post by oldduffer on Sept 30, 2019 14:18:35 GMT -6
Not to change the subject at hand. I have been around situations where a breeder had bulls that were carriers of genetic defects. They offered them for sale without papers as commercial bulls. I personally never felt good about that situation. The are multiple reasons as to why but the one that I came back to is straight forward. I would never want to be a part of propagation of any defect. I would can the carriers and not sell semen. Just my opinion. And it wasn't that long ago we had a AHA Board President and several Board members selling the heck out of their known and suspected genetic defect carriers! "Let's make Herefords GREAT again!!!!!!" |
|
|
|
Post by randy on Sept 30, 2019 20:52:53 GMT -6
Some people have pretty short memories. Have seen where some cattle are named Encore and even Larry recently. It recalls their namesakes to me even though they are not related. Short memories and many simply do not remember because they had not been born. |
|
