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Post by hoekland on Dec 6, 2010 11:12:25 GMT -6
... or whatever you want to call it
We all know that working bulls are bound to lose some condition when out running with cows, more so yearling bulls on tough terrain, or with too many cows or fat showbulls that are expected to earn their keep for a change.
My question is just how much is still acceptable in your opinion and what would you consider to be redeeming circumstances for the bull?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2010 9:36:51 GMT -6
i don't think there would be much for redeeming circumstances for a bull that lost so much he couldn't get the job done, flat out quit, or lost so much he couldn't come back on his own with what his natural environment provided him before going into winter. but that is coming from a person that wants to raise every replacement and selects on more than just performance. i think it depends on the setting
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Post by Glenn on Dec 7, 2010 9:51:25 GMT -6
That is a really tough question. Obviously it is unacceptable if he loses so much condition that he won't breed.
If he bred all the cows I had him in with, and he was able to return to an acceptable condition by the next breeding system under my management protocols and I was pleased with the first calf crops progression at that point I would probably use him again. With the most important criteria being judging his calves on the ground that would probably be about 60 days old at bull turnout time.
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Post by George on Dec 10, 2010 9:23:39 GMT -6
... or whatever you want to call it We all know that working bulls are bound to lose some condition when out running with cows, more so yearling bulls on tough terrain, or with too many cows or fat showbulls that are expected to earn their keep for a change. My question is just how much is still acceptable in your opinion and what would you consider to be redeeming circumstances for the bull? I think once a bull gets to 3 or 4 years old he should be staying in as good or better shape as the average of the cows he's with. But that's based on making judgments on bulls who are allowed to run in the pasture with cows year around and I know a lot of folks don't do that. I've had my share of experiences with fat and/or former show bulls and I think they should be holding their own by the second year in the pasture. George |
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Post by hoekland on Dec 10, 2010 10:21:09 GMT -6
I was hoping for a more animated discussion, but since no-one seems willing to take the bait..
The reason for my question was I used 3 yearling bulls this season and one 2 year old, 3 of them are half brothers and the other a maternal halfsib to the 2 year old and sired by a bull out of a maternal halfsib to his dam. All 4 bulls born and raised here.
Bear in mind that it has been the worst year for grazing that I can remember and that the cattle was in lean condition. All 4 bulls worked on very extensive veld and had to hustle for a bite to eat, no supplement at all not even salt.
The 2 year old was in a growth test untill he was 12 1/2 months old, was shown in the 15-18 month class last September. He went into the breeding season in BCS 4.5 and came out at about BCS 5 and was with 35 cows
One yearling came out of an on-farm growth test in BCS 6.5 and shared 45 cows with another yearling who was running on dead winter pasture and started the season in BCS 5. The first yealing was sold a month into the breeding season because I had run out of bulls and was in BCS 5.5 at the time. The other came out in BCS 4.5.
The 3rd yearling was shown and was in BCS 6.5 and went from the showring off the trailer to 27 cows weighing 656 kg at 14.5 months. He came out a week ago in BCS 5 weighing 656 kg. My point being that although he lost condition he didn't lose weight, his condition could just not keep up with the growth during the breeding season and no doubt he would have grown alot more and lost less condition if he was on decent pasture.
In conclusion I think how you develop the bulls do play a role, but it wouldn't neccesarily condemn good genetics if the bull was fed at some stage within reasonable limits. I think the real bad cases of pasture melt happens when you try and feed an ordinary calf into a studbull.
Any opinions or experience in tis regard?
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Post by Glenn on Dec 10, 2010 10:42:51 GMT -6
Interesting thoughts. I agree that Ceteris Paribus that a bull with the right genetics will come out of extensive conditions in better shape than an inferior bull.
I have been pretty hard core in the past about minimal feeding and still follow this regime on my cowherd very strictly, but am coming to the conclusion that to sell bulls for a better price some feeding after weaning is going to be needed.
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Post by hoekland on Dec 10, 2010 15:34:10 GMT -6
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Post by Glenn on Dec 10, 2010 15:40:17 GMT -6
Link?
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Post by Glenn on Dec 10, 2010 15:48:35 GMT -6
Disregard the last post. It is a tool on the site designed to generate traffic. If someone copies text from posts here the "read more here" link is automatically inserted.
I have disabled it. I want to keep the board semi private.
But that does not mean I would not WELCOME any other Hereford breeders. If you know of any that might be interested please pass them the link.
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Post by rockmillsfarm on Dec 11, 2010 22:38:27 GMT -6
According to a auctioneer I heard give a little speech the other day, above everything else, the three most important things you need to bring the best prices for Hereford cattle right now are, dark red, eye pigment (the more the merrier) and fat. Nothing really new there, just need to be reminded every now and then about what most folks want to see when buying Herefords. I've had quite a few breeders this year, even a couple of Angus breeders tell me I really need to get my bull calves on test because they would sell so much better. Not done it yet though. |
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Post by jayh on Dec 19, 2010 16:39:14 GMT -6
Ok did my bull fall clear apart? here are some pics when I first got him  Fall after breeding all the cows (over 20 less than 30)  this fall early after breeding the cows   |
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Post by rockmillsfarm on Dec 19, 2010 20:29:23 GMT -6
According to a auctioneer I heard give a little speech the other day, above everything else, the three most important things you need to bring the best prices for Hereford cattle right now are, dark red, eye pigment (the more the merrier) and fat. Nothing really new there, just need to be reminded every now and then about what most folks want to see when buying Herefords. I've had quite a few breeders this year, even a couple of Ugly Black Cattle breeders tell me I really need to get my bull calves on test because they would sell so much better. Not done it yet though. Big brother at work already. UMMMM. |
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Post by Glenn on Dec 20, 2010 7:54:21 GMT -6
LOL...
Just having fun with the board tools. You're the first one that noticed! I just wanted to see how the feature worked! I'll fix it back.
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Post by hoekland on Dec 20, 2010 9:20:19 GMT -6
Jay, if he was mine I would have been disappointed, but I guess he bounced back enough in the end
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Post by Glenn on Dec 20, 2010 9:20:44 GMT -6
I thought Angus was a good word to censor since it is more offense than most curse words! LOL!
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