Black tails, noticed

[mj]

Sold our calves last month after feeding for 70 days and all in all did pretty well. Fortunately it wasn't mid October. We had one heifer pulled out of a lot of about 25, that sold by herself. We found out later because she had some black in her nose. A few years ago, for just one year, we had some calves that had some black in their tails and noses. Have never had any black cattle or bulls. Anybody know anything about this recessive gene?

[btlrupert]

Don't know about the gene but I remember seeing that years ago in some of the Trask bred Plato Rupert cattle... we had one bull from Trask who had black hair mixed in from mid way of his tail down. Also remember seeing black "freckles" on the nose.

[shiloh]

Color options for cattle are black, red, or 'wild type', which is both red and black. We raise some braford F1s, and grey Brahman cattle have pretty complicated color genetics. Color/uniformity is a big selling point for our customers, so I looked into it. As we know, red is recessive, black is dominant, and as far as I can tell, wild (both), is in between. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, this is very interesting to me.) Then there are modifiers at numerous different loci, most notably for us, the diluter gene, which causes yellow (on red) or grey (on black) calves.

The way I see it, black tail/nose pigment can go one of 2 ways:

Homozygous red cattle are more 'pure' and thus are superior, or

Heterozygous red/black cattle carry more diversity, and are more natural, and this are more superio

[shiloh]

Oops! Posted by accident!
r.

I am all about purity, and usefulness, but I fall into the second category. I think a natural, and diverse genotype is more beneficial. After all, you peel the hide off before you eat them, right?

[mj]

Sold at a discount to others, not much, but still. Was a nice calf, nothing else wrong. Just wondering. Believe we know the bull bloodline it came from, but decided not to test. Calves were fine and actually kept a couple. First time we really noticed in years.

[randy]

You should ask Miles Mckee about the black hairs.... He would ramble for hours about it...

[Carlos (frmaiz)]

Old breeders here were careful about black hair that appeared in small patches or in the tail. It was considered as a breed impurity, albeit an old one. As a matter of fact the local association rejects animals with black hair in the "Puro Registrado" category.

[strojanherefords]

Feb 6, 2017 18:15:37 GMT -6 mj said:

Sold at a discount to others, not much, but still. Was a nice calf, nothing else wrong. Just wondering. Believe we know the bull bloodline it came from, but decided not to test. Calves were fine and actually kept a couple. First time we really noticed in years.

Not having seen the animal in question, I believe the cattle buyer was just looking for an excuse to discount the calf.  Sitting in auction rings, I have seen calves separated out and sold as singles for no reason other than to discount the price of the calf. I really don't like the practice as it is unfair to the consignor.

[cflory]

sorry guys, I was playing on my phone trying to see if I could get this uploaded. Apparently it did. This heifer has a black spotted nose, her mother does also. They are the only ones in the herd that does. The mother is almost straight Trask bred.

[erherf]

. Black nose and black eye pigment. Popular Cooper cow family that goes back to Brae Arden

[mj]

The bull we think it came from was RH Future King Lad 63M (Canadian breeding) on top and Yampa bloodlines on bottom. Liked the bull and his offspring. Not sure it was quite as pronounced as that Cooper bull, but both the recent pictures are representative of my question.

[Carlos (frmaiz)]

Just find this black patch in one of our calves. The do occur, not often, but never saw anything as big as this one.

[moon]

Black on the nose from my vantage point is much to do about nothing. I have several, and next it will an excuse because they have freckled faces or black eyes. The Auction barn should have told the order buyer no go and should have protected the seller. What a lame excuse. Heard about black tails since I was a kid, mainly claimed less fertility but not readily apparent to my limited experiences. The more eye pigment typically you see freckles and nose pigmentation.

[moon]

Black on the nose from my vantage point is much to do about nothing. I have several, and next it will an excuse because they have freckled faces or black eyes. The Auction barn should have told the order buyer no go and should have protected the seller. What a lame excuse. Heard about black tails since I was a kid, mainly claimed less fertility but not readily apparent to my limited experiences. The more eye pigment typically you see freckles and nose pigmentation.

[hoekland]

Black spots like the one frmaiz posted as well as black hair in the tail has always been in the breed, don't go and multiply it, but we have bigger issues to worry about.

[Carlos (frmaiz)]

Mar 8, 2017 5:58:50 GMT -6 hoekland said:

Black spots like the one frmaiz posted as well as black hair in the tail has always been in the breed, don't go and multiply it, but we have bigger issues to worry about.

Exactly.

[mj]

Just recently saw a couple of pics of CJH Harland 408 and he has the black tail. Never noticed before. We have some Harland blood.

[soherf]

The large dark spots are birth marks.
I have a growing amount of brown freckles on the noses of our herd as I have selected for eye pigment.

[alex]

According to Dr. Jan Bonsma in the July, 1967 Hereford Journal, hair above the tail brush Is often dark and will occasionally be black in bulls. It usually means the bull has great libido. If castrated, the hair fades after 2 1/2 months. Dark hair above the tail switch should be culled in cows because it is a masculine trait.

[Glenn]