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Post by fivestarherefords on Nov 8, 2020 6:13:01 GMT -6
That sentiment could relate to a multitude of issues facing society today. I just want to touch on one of those issues right now as it has been festering for the last few months.
The Hereford breed is headed down a path of destruction unless some breeders with an ounce of moral fiber step up and put a stop to the reckless selling of known carriers of lethal defects. I’ve watched all fall as small outfits and large conglomerates alike have dumped carrier cattle onto unknowing folks. A female here or there and I’d chalk it up to bad business and move on. But now we are seeing bulls sold in volume under the pretense that it’s okay as long as they are going into commercial herds. BULLSHIT! Genetic defects don’t go away when the paper trail disappears, they multiply, unchecked, until they wreck entire operations. I pray there are some folks on the board that have the courage to take a stand.
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Post by timbernt on Nov 8, 2020 7:19:22 GMT -6
As a voting delegate to the AHA you set this agenda.
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Post by fivestarherefords on Nov 8, 2020 9:40:15 GMT -6
As a voting delegate to the AHA you set this agenda. Using that logic. If you voted in the presidential election then you are responsible for every policy decision regardless of how you voted? |
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Post by timbernt on Nov 8, 2020 11:36:23 GMT -6
I damn sure have to live with it!
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Post by fivestarherefords on Nov 8, 2020 11:39:34 GMT -6
I damn sure have to live with it! Just to be clear. Are you okay with selling cattle with known genetic defects? |
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Post by timbernt on Nov 8, 2020 12:50:43 GMT -6
In 1983 Dr. Leipold offered me a residency in forensic pathology leading to continuing his work on congenital deformities in cattle. I decided instead to continue in general veterinary practice as the only way I knew to continue hands on breeding of the Herefords I loved and to raise my family in the same Hereford tradition. So the answer is a pretty resounding no. In my practice years I had a particular interest in cattle breeding and working with purebred breeders, so I watched the shenanigans as they took place. That is why I laugh at those who are indignant about the results of those well known crooked breeders and the newbies who don't know what a Hereford looks like.
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Post by Glenn on Nov 8, 2020 19:59:01 GMT -6
I sure don’t think it’s fair to blame a member because he was a delegate. That’s like blaming me for Biden being elected President (hopefully overturned by courts) because I was a voter in the 2020 election.
I get more disillusioned with the registered Hereford business by the minute practically. When you make a stand you are just treated as a black sheep and ostracized so not sure what the answer is. At this point I just try to run my piddly little operation the best and most honest that I can.
The problem is for every 10 registered Hereford breeders there are 7 that have no idea how a basic genetic principle like a recessive gene even works, 2 dishonest charlatans and 1 breeder that has knowledge and integrity.
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Post by timbernt on Nov 8, 2020 20:22:38 GMT -6
Glenn, as you would expect I used some hyperbole. My point is I have no vote or voice as an individual Hereford breeder. A voting delegate is supposed to be my voice. The system is rigged if the only voice a voting delegate has is a private forum the AHA ridicules.
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Post by strojanherefords on Nov 8, 2020 23:33:55 GMT -6
The issue that fivestar has raised is more than just selling genetic defect carriers and it is bigger than just our breed. I have seen far too many inferior registered cattle being sold. There is a thought that because an animal has a prestigious background all the calves must be good.
Regarding the voting process, I have little doubt that the process isn't controlled by charlatans.
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Post by soherf on Nov 9, 2020 5:38:33 GMT -6
The AHA ridicules this site?
Every association has problems and issues, I happen to think the AHA is pretty darned great compared to the others.
Angus cattle (potential carriers) have been dumped into the commercial segment for years. I don't hear any bull buyer balk at buying an Angus bull so I'd hope the same goes for the Hereford bull buyer.
I personally think the AHA has done a great job over the last 2 years in defect ID, timely release of known information, testing speed and not holding back info from the membership. I mean they released the MSUD test results of over 33,000 animals without charging a dime on March 6, 2019. I had most of my cowherd in that group so I lucked into the first batch of results.
If they were wanting to drive out carrier animals the AHA could do it in a snap. They could implement the limitation of known carrier bull offspring or require defect testing prior to full registration by not allowing carriers to register offspring (this could work for both sexes.) They now require 5 defect testing for all AI permits issued after Sept 1, 2020 but do not require those bulls to be defect free to obtain the permit. They could easily apply this same requirements to ET permits too.
The AHA could phase out current carrier bulls in a similar way that the AQHA limited HYPP+ horses, a rolling phase out that kept them from showing/registering/breeding although the details are escaping me at the moment.
The more limitations applied to the registered side, the more defect carriers you'll see fall into the commercial sector.
The lab currently will not test samples for MD if they are not submitted through the AHA. If the AHA wanted to rake in extra cash they would be selling the tests on any sample that came in yet they aren't.
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Post by strojanherefords on Nov 13, 2020 22:48:44 GMT -6
The AHA ridicules this site? Every association has problems and issues, I happen to think the AHA is pretty darned great compared to the others. Angus cattle (potential carriers) have been dumped into the commercial segment for years. I don't hear any bull buyer balk at buying an Angus bull so I'd hope the same goes for the Hereford bull buyer. I personally think the AHA has done a great job over the last 2 years in defect ID, timely release of known information, testing speed and not holding back info from the membership. I mean they released the MSUD test results of over 33,000 animals without charging a dime on March 6, 2019. I had most of my cowherd in that group so I lucked into the first batch of results. If they were wanting to drive out carrier animals the AHA could do it in a snap. They could implement the limitation of known carrier bull offspring or require defect testing prior to full registration by not allowing carriers to register offspring (this could work for both sexes.) They now require 5 defect testing for all AI permits issued after Sept 1, 2020 but do not require those bulls to be defect free to obtain the permit. They could easily apply this same requirements to ET permits too. The AHA could phase out current carrier bulls in a similar way that the AQHA limited HYPP+ horses, a rolling phase out that kept them from showing/registering/breeding although the details are escaping me at the moment. The more limitations applied to the registered side, the more defect carriers you'll see fall into the commercial sector. The lab currently will not test samples for MD if they are not submitted through the AHA. If the AHA wanted to rake in extra cash they would be selling the tests on any sample that came in yet they aren't. Holly, just because you write something down doesn't make it true. How much time elapsed between the first report of a calf with a problem and the release of the commercialized test? The AHA has consistently drug its feet when it comes to dealing with genetic defects and other issues. With MSUD, the association was testing for that trait for five years before they released the information to the membership. |
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Post by soherf on Nov 14, 2020 6:57:39 GMT -6
Strojan, the early MSUD test results were part of their new DNA testing results but they didn't know what they were looking at. It's like taking a picture and later realizing you caught the getaway driver from a bank robbery in the background. When the AHA realized they had collected the needed sequence they released over 33,000 results on March 6, 2018. They didn't balk or wait around they just put it out there. I suggest you call and talk to the people making these decisions before you accuse them of anything. I have had phone conversations with the AHA and feel very comfortable with their handling of the situations and do not feel they have drug their feet with either the MSUD or MD tests, previous tests I couldn't say.
You have the right to call and ask the AHA all the questions you need answered.
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Post by strojanherefords on Nov 14, 2020 21:32:49 GMT -6
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Post by soherf on Nov 16, 2020 7:37:22 GMT -6
Just because they knew about it does not mean they had ID'd the genetic marker for it and developed a test. Papers about MSUD go back much further in time. It has been listed as a lethal defect in the AHA rulebook for years.
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Post by fivestarherefords on Nov 16, 2020 9:14:26 GMT -6
Just because they knew about it does not mean they had ID'd the genetic marker for it and developed a test. Papers about MSUD go back much further in time. It has been listed as a lethal defect in the AHA rulebook for years. Are you okay with selling known carriers of lethal defects? |
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Post by strojanherefords on Nov 16, 2020 11:25:06 GMT -6
Just because they knew about it does not mean they had ID'd the genetic marker for it and developed a test. Papers about MSUD go back much further in time. It has been listed as a lethal defect in the AHA rulebook for years. There is no one so blind as she who will not see. The article I cited identified two genetic markers for MSUD. The only question is are we dealing with the Hereford mutation or the polled shorthorn mutation. |
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Post by soherf on Nov 23, 2020 14:19:30 GMT -6
Just because they knew about it does not mean they had ID'd the genetic marker for it and developed a test. Papers about MSUD go back much further in time. It has been listed as a lethal defect in the AHA rulebook for years. Are you okay with selling known carriers of lethal defects? No, which is why my entire herd is tested, even the females. |
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Post by soherf on Nov 23, 2020 14:20:03 GMT -6
Just because they knew about it does not mean they had ID'd the genetic marker for it and developed a test. Papers about MSUD go back much further in time. It has been listed as a lethal defect in the AHA rulebook for years. There is no one so blind as she who will not see. The article I cited identified two genetic markers for MSUD. The only question is are we dealing with the Hereford mutation or the polled shorthorn mutation. That sounds like a great question for the lab. |
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Post by elkwc on Nov 23, 2020 19:41:55 GMT -6
The AHA ridicules this site? Every association has problems and issues, I happen to think the AHA is pretty darned great compared to the others. Angus cattle (potential carriers) have been dumped into the commercial segment for years. I don't hear any bull buyer balk at buying an Angus bull so I'd hope the same goes for the Hereford bull buyer. I personally think the AHA has done a great job over the last 2 years in defect ID, timely release of known information, testing speed and not holding back info from the membership. I mean they released the MSUD test results of over 33,000 animals without charging a dime on March 6, 2019. I had most of my cowherd in that group so I lucked into the first batch of results. If they were wanting to drive out carrier animals the AHA could do it in a snap. They could implement the limitation of known carrier bull offspring or require defect testing prior to full registration by not allowing carriers to register offspring (this could work for both sexes.) They now require 5 defect testing for all AI permits issued after Sept 1, 2020 but do not require those bulls to be defect free to obtain the permit. They could easily apply this same requirements to ET permits too. The AHA could phase out current carrier bulls in a similar way that the AQHA limited HYPP+ horses, a rolling phase out that kept them from showing/registering/breeding although the details are escaping me at the moment. The more limitations applied to the registered side, the more defect carriers you'll see fall into the commercial sector. The lab currently will not test samples for MD if they are not submitted through the AHA. If the AHA wanted to rake in extra cash they would be selling the tests on any sample that came in yet they aren't. I've attended several Angus sales over the last 7 years. I've seen a few carriers sold. All were noted in the catalog and in most cases the papers weren't transferred. One of the best cows in my herd is a carrier. Even being a carrier that sold with a copy only I paid good money for her. I've been told all Angus are tested when registered. So in my experience the Angus with defects have been identified. When I bought my cow I bought her knowing she was a carrier. But I was interested in a Hereford this fall that potentially could be a carrier but my understanding was he wasn't tested. I didn't bid because of that. |
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perli
Fresh Calf
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Post by perli on Nov 24, 2020 11:33:36 GMT -6
When I send registration applications in on my angus calves and if there is a carrier of a defect in the background I get an email telling me that I need to test that animal to continue the process
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