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Post by Glenn on Oct 2, 2015 12:49:56 GMT -6
I was looking at the new HW and the delegate list for each state......
Same old....Same old......
Status Quo rules.......
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Post by George on Oct 2, 2015 17:26:45 GMT -6
I was looking at the new HW and the delegate list for each state...... Same old....Same old...... Status Quo rules....... WOW! I need to see if mine has arrived. I still haven't looked at last month's issue - other than at that one page where the "absence" of the Grand Champion Steer was pointed out. I'm getting to be about like Tim in my opinion that the HW seems to have less and less relevance to what I'm doing with my cattle. Sorry! I forgot! I am supposed to be a cheerleader! Rah! Rah! RAH! Goooo! You Ang...uh..I mean Goooo! You Hereford guys! (And just disregard that little bit of Simmental that taints the breed purity!) Did I forget anything? |
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Post by Glenn on Oct 2, 2015 19:12:03 GMT -6
I thought you might be the "delegate to be named later" for Texas...
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Post by elkwc on Oct 2, 2015 19:17:43 GMT -6
I thought you might be the "delegate to be named later" for Texas... Glenn George might just being coy about it. LOL |
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Post by bltherf on Oct 3, 2015 8:54:35 GMT -6
That's how change in associations comes,from within, being part of the process. Standing on the sidelines bitching about everything is not all that fruitfull. Sometimes a major change comes about from the slightest dissenting or different idea. Ideas change people, processes and associations. I always have had great respect for people who are willing to give their time and be involved, even if I didnt always agree with them. JMO
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Post by Glenn on Oct 3, 2015 14:00:47 GMT -6
You don't get to volunteer to be a delegate......
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Post by bookcliff on Oct 3, 2015 16:27:17 GMT -6
I was looking at the new HW and the delegate list for each state...... Same old....Same old...... Status Quo rules....... Thanks alot Glenn. some of us, like a majority of the Kansas delegation, have been delegates off and on ever since the system was put togther after the merger and have gone and raised hell each and every year trying to do exactly what BT said. sometimes it changed policy and sometimes it don't. |
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Post by Glenn on Oct 3, 2015 16:55:07 GMT -6
I wasn't trying to put any PARTICULAR PERSON down. I was just noting (especially the the Texas delegattion) that it is the same people year after year. Hard for any changes to take place if it is the same people year after year.
I have tried my best to get George on the delegate list from Texas. At least he made the printed ballot this time. When you only register 50-75 head a year, it's hard to make any headway....
If you got your feeling hurt, I'm sorry. Didn't mean it, but I STAND BY EVERY WORD I SAID.
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Post by mehf on Oct 4, 2015 5:43:51 GMT -6
I was looking at the new HW and the delegate list for each state...... Same old....Same old...... Status Quo rules....... Thanks alot Glenn. some of us, like a majority of the Kansas delegation, have been delegates off and on ever since the system was put togther after the merger and have gone and raised hell each and every year trying to do exactly what BT said. sometimes it changed policy and sometimes it don't. TK, It is my sincere hope that you Kansas Hereford people raise a lot of HELL about the preponderance of black critter people now in senior management positions at the AHA. It truly is a disgraceful situation and it has got to stop and stop soon before it is too late. I wish I could join you Kansas folks at the Annual Meeting this year but my health situation prevents. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 14:58:52 GMT -6
If you want your voices heard at the meetings then call up your state's delegates some evening and have a chat with them. Ask them what their views are on some of the topics you feel strongly about and if you have something you want brought up or answered at the annual meeting then encourage them to bring it up and report back to you after the meetings. You don't have to be a state delegate to have your voice heard, that's the one thing I really encourage some here that feel that their voice is not being heard is to attend your state association meetings and events and contact your elected AHA representatives as well as even the hired staff at AHA with the issues that get beaten to death here. These folks are elected or in the case of the AHA staff paid to represent you and I think some here would be shocked just how much they could really find out or learn about things if they would just contact those folks to get some answers versus ranting about here where you aren't going to get a response from people you are directing it at.
The people that get elected as delegates likely do a lot of networking and building relationships with people in their state associations that get them the reputation and name recognition needed to be voted as a delegate. Just looking over the list of our state's delegates our state president (who also happens to be on the AHA board of directors too) our vice president, secretary, and another board director are our 4 delegates. All are very involved with the functions of our state association over the years from being on the sale committee or a scholarship committee to helping plan and run other events throughout the year so I'd say those people are very deserving of being delegates as they probably interact with the breeders of our state more than most do. I know some here will say they don't care to participate in their state association for 1 reason or another but more times than not that's how most of these delegates likely got to be a state delegate by being involved which in turn gets you name recognition from the relationships you built.
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Post by Glenn on Oct 5, 2015 15:13:19 GMT -6
The people that get elected as delegates likely do a lot of networking and building relationships with people in their state associations that get them the reputation and name recognition needed to be voted as a delegate. LMAO....  |
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Post by George on Oct 5, 2015 16:12:36 GMT -6
I thought you might be the "delegate to be named later" for Texas... If I was "that delegate" they'd probably get around to announcing it around January 1st! LOL |
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Post by bltherf on Oct 5, 2015 19:06:33 GMT -6
Your system of determining representation is different that ours. Our national directors come from being nominated at our provincial meetings and they are usually the people who have put in their time there serving on the provincial boards. You can be nominated independently at such time as well. This helps to build a bridge between provincial and national boards as well as a bit of a screening process to move those people on who have paid their dues serving the breed . They tend to be those who have exposure and experience with what goes on in their area.
I remember some years ago having an informal meeting between a group of our CHA directors and the two Kansas Toms in Denver. We were interested in what they were doing with the Kansas feed out, and carcass trials. We were impressed with what was happening there ,by an independent group,and kicked those ideas around for a while. This lead to some independent work by breeders in Alberta and Sask and eventually to some National trials on NFI and gain, due to an interest in an area that many thought was important. An idea that wouldn't go away and just kept evolving .
I don't think you want to be too negative about the consequences of good ideas, and someone willing to drive them. No, it's not usually fast, not usually ending up quite the same form as it started in,but that's the nature of our democratic systems. I fully realize an attempt to affect change on any large organization is difficult, but I,d still rather fail trying than be a successful quitter.
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Post by timbernt on Oct 5, 2015 22:31:36 GMT -6
Byron, soon after the merger my father complained to Jim Courtney about the new voting system (the one we still have). Courtney explained to him his rational for this system. Basically, many of the influential horned breeders were concerned that there were so many polled breeders within driving distance of Kansas City that it was likely they could dominate an annual meeting with one-man-one vote. The present system was created to prevent that. It turns out those old horned guys were outfoxed in that, as you pointed out, being selected as a delegate is based on networking. As was pointed out to me about 25 years ago, polled Hereford people are more about socializing than breeding cattle for the commercial industry. Socializing leads to lots of networking and support to be a delegate. As a result we have become an organization whose main role seems to be youth development and support for those marketing show heifers for the juniors. Youth development is a noble cause, but with the limited resource we have it seems to me that we need to concentrate our spending on the adult world and leave the kids to the schools, 4-H, FFA, and all the other educational programs with one heck of a lot more money than the AHA has. Personally, my success is a lot more dependent on whether Dave and I get a mile of water line and 6 waterers in this week than whether I spend time in KC schmoozing with people who never had to market a fed steer in the market we have today.
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Post by bltherf on Oct 5, 2015 22:52:53 GMT -6
Understand where you are on this. Few of us involved in ranching or cattle enterprises where we are trying to make a living have time for much else. Guess my long winded point was that we should all try somehow to affect change, however small,whenever we can. Ideas are important .If you are going to give an organization your money to belong and do business, you should try to watch how it's spent.
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Post by mrvictordomino on Oct 5, 2015 22:56:28 GMT -6
Byron, soon after the merger my father complained to Jim Courtney about the new voting system (the one we still have). Courtney explained to him his rational for this system. Basically, many of the influential horned breeders were concerned that there were so many polled breeders within driving distance of Kansas City that it was likely they could dominate an annual meeting with one-man-one vote. The present system was created to prevent that. It turns out those old horned guys were outfoxed in that, as you pointed out, being selected as a delegate is based on networking. As was pointed out to me about 25 years ago, polled Hereford people are more about socializing than breeding cattle for the commercial industry. Socializing leads to lots of networking and support to be a delegate. As a result we have become an organization whose main role seems to be youth development and support for those marketing show heifers for the juniors. Youth development is a noble cause, but with the limited resource we have it seems to me that we need to concentrate our spending on the adult world and leave the kids to the schools, 4-H, FFA, and all the other educational programs with one heck of a lot more money than the AHA has. Personally, my success is a lot more dependent on whether Dave and I get a mile of water line and 6 waterers in this week than whether I spend time in KC schmoozing with people who never had to market a fed steer in the market we have today. Tim, probably a true statement for many, but not all. |
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Post by Glenn on Oct 6, 2015 8:59:42 GMT -6
The people that get elected as delegates likely do a lot of networking and building relationships with people in their state associations that get them the reputation and name recognition needed to be voted as a delegate. LMAO.... I posted that because who has time for all this "networking"? I personally have a CPA office that requires a lot of attention and a 100+ cows to take care of not to mention 3 elementary aged kids and a wife......."networking" is pretty low down on the totem pole of things I have time to think about doing. The thing is it is the busy people going about the "work" that feel the way I do. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2015 11:17:39 GMT -6
LMAO.... I posted that because who has time for all this "networking"? I personally have a CPA office that requires a lot of attention and a 100+ cows to take care of not to mention 3 elementary aged kids and a wife......."networking" is pretty low down on the totem pole of things I have time to think about doing. The thing is it is the busy people going about the "work" that feel the way I do. There is nothing wrong with that either Glenn, everyone has different situations and priorities. I was just pointing out that chances are if you went through the list of delegates you're going to find that most of them are probably involved in some manner with their state associations. Like it or not there is probably some kind of politics that play into who gets voted as delegates and that's just the reality of it. Hell I deal with "office politics" myself with my full time job, it's just a nature of how society works whether we like it or not. Like I said though, just because someone you would prefer to be a delegate didn't get a spot you still can have your voice heard by reaching out to your state delegates and voicing any concerns, questions, thoughts, etc. you would appreciate them to bring up at the annual meeting as they are there to represent you and that doesn't require any extensive networking to pick up a phone or shoot them an email. |
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Post by herfdog on Oct 7, 2015 11:14:44 GMT -6
Could it be possible with the internet/email of today, the membership vote on issues that the AHA have verses having a delegate/board members do all the voting?
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Post by hoekland on Oct 7, 2015 12:09:52 GMT -6
Could it be possible with the internet/email of today, the membership vote on issues that the AHA have verses having a delegate/board members do all the voting? That would depend on you constitution and bylaws and what powers the council has. It should be clearly described what the council can decide on and what should be approved by a majority vote on the AGM |
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Post by hoekland on Oct 7, 2015 12:11:36 GMT -6
It is simply not practical for every small matter to go to public vote especially when sensitive information is involved
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Post by bookcliff on Oct 7, 2015 21:34:34 GMT -6
a very wise and successful breeder from the sandhills who sold hundreds of range bulls each year told me years ago "son, the purebred business is 10% bulls and 90% the people business"
whether a feller likes it or not AHA is more about the polotics of the "people business". thus you either got to say screw it just send me my papers and stay the hell outa my way or you have to keep raising hell and swimming upstream at the meeting and effecting change, no matter how small, when and were you can.
at the higher level of the purebred game, such as the annual meetings it is about the contacts and the realationships. don't make it right but that is how it is and futheromre anyone who doesn't believe that it's also true in every other facit of life as wellis kidding themselves.
futhermore, the weighted vote in my mind has been a check and balance ever since the inception. anyone who was there when Jim Reed brought forth a fust full of proxy votes from the floor back had that one seared into their brain. this oranization is a business organization and as such those who pay in the most (AKA registrations) out to have more say. . back a number of years ago at a AHA meeting held at Courtland KS during the hotbed of the activation fee, it was brought out that about 20% of the membership registers about 70% fo the cattle and accounts for 75-80% of AHA billing. to me that says it all when you are arguing aobut weighted vs one man, one vote,especially give that over 50% of our membership registers less than 10 head a year. sorry if that pisses some of you off but there it is.
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Post by timbernt on Oct 8, 2015 6:06:02 GMT -6
Tom, you and Byron and SPH are absolutely right about the networking. Just last night Jim Reed called and talked for about 30 minutes. Saturday morning I visited with Jim Bellis in person for some time. At the MHA field day I spent some time with Glen Klippenstein. All fine people. I don't know Glen very well, but I am proud to call Reed and Bellis friends. All of my rants about polled cattle really is not about the people, it is about the disconnect between the commercial world and the purebred industry. I feel very strongly that there is more connection with the real world by the hard headed horned breeders like you than the many polled breeders I know. My gripe with the AHA is that our leaders do not see the disconnect and even foster it with the opiate of EPD's. And I have become convinced the we have leaders and breeders with so little connection to the real there is not much hope. By the way, I voted with Jim at that meeting.
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Post by bltherf on Oct 8, 2015 8:09:17 GMT -6
Interesting and well written post Tim
..the opiate of EPD,s. Brilliant You should patent that one Tim!!
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