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Post by Glenn on Sept 26, 2014 17:28:02 GMT -6
Took a few pics up in Oklahoma while checking some spring pairs. Spring pair Another spring pair Spring bull calf Spring heifer calf
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Post by btlrupert on Sept 26, 2014 18:24:36 GMT -6
Very nice!! Really like spring heifer ... Knock the horns off and send her my way...
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Post by timbernt on Sept 26, 2014 18:40:14 GMT -6
You have to love those L1 females. That is the point I was trying to make to Strojanherefords in the other post. Getting the idea that Ochs was the answer to our Hereford needs is just wrong. I have never seen a female like those with their genetics. On the other hand, you have to love those big, thick bulls they raised. And I have yet to see a L1 bull that excites me.
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Post by elkwc on Sept 26, 2014 19:07:46 GMT -6
Really like the spring heifer. I have only seen a few line one bulls that excite me. But have seen a few. Seen a Miles City bull recently that stamps every calf bull or heifer with loads of muscle. As we went through the cows and calves in a Ranger and I would say I like that calf it has lots of muscle the breeder would say that is another Miles City calf. I didn't see anything older than 18 months but they really impressed me. Have seen a few L1's around Leedey that will impress most.
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Post by hoekland on Sept 26, 2014 23:36:16 GMT -6
Very nice!! Really like spring heifer ... Knock the horns off and send her my way... I like her too, Glenn can send her my way, but only after a head transplant.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 9:00:57 GMT -6
You have to love those L1 females. That is the point I was trying to make to Strojanherefords in the other post. Getting the idea that Ochs was the answer to our Hereford needs is just wrong. I have never seen a female like those with their genetics. On the other hand, you have to love those big, thick bulls they raised. And I have yet to see a L1 bull that excites me. seems like a cross between the two makes for a nice hereford.
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Post by strojanherefords on Sept 27, 2014 10:42:42 GMT -6
You have to love those L1 females. That is the point I was trying to make to Strojanherefords in the other post. Getting the idea that Ochs was the answer to our Hereford needs is just wrong. I have never seen a female like those with their genetics. On the other hand, you have to love those big, thick bulls they raised. And I have yet to see a L1 bull that excites me. seems like a cross between the two makes for a nice hereford. And to quote Ken Ochs, the cross should be left to the bull buyers. If you sell bulls with hybrid vigor, then they will not have calves as good as themselves and your customers will be disappointed. But if you sell linebred bulls, they will sire calves better than themselves and your customers will be happy. My goal is to produce bulls that will work well on line one and polled cattle. And to that end, I am focusing on two things longevity, and performance with reasonable birth weights. To me a pretty cow is over ten with a big calf.
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Post by bookcliff on Sept 28, 2014 13:22:56 GMT -6
You have to love those L1 females. That is the point I was trying to make to Strojanherefords in the other post. Getting the idea that Ochs was the answer to our Hereford needs is just wrong. I have never seen a female like those with their genetics. On the other hand, you have to love those big, thick bulls they raised. And I have yet to see a L1 bull that excites me. The problem I had with the Och's cattle is somwhat different than most. they tended to be a wreck when you hung those genetics on the rail in the packing house. and while they gained thru the roof in the feedyard, their dry matter conversions were more like Angus cattle's. I know alot of folks in the Hereford business don't care about this kinda stuff but thats what kept us from using them here anyway.
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Post by Glenn on Sept 29, 2014 16:10:00 GMT -6
Another Oklahoma cow
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Post by btlrupert on Sept 29, 2014 16:50:14 GMT -6
Very nice animal!
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Post by strojanherefords on Oct 1, 2014 10:11:56 GMT -6
You have to love those L1 females. That is the point I was trying to make to Strojanherefords in the other post. Getting the idea that Ochs was the answer to our Hereford needs is just wrong. I have never seen a female like those with their genetics. On the other hand, you have to love those big, thick bulls they raised. And I have yet to see a L1 bull that excites me. The problem I had with the Och's cattle is somwhat different than most. they tended to be a wreck when you hung those genetics on the rail in the packing house. and while they gained thru the roof in the feedyard, their dry matter conversions were more like Angus cattle's. I know alot of folks in the Hereford business don't care about this kinda stuff but thats what kept us from using them here anyway. Basically you are saying that the Ochs genetics have too high of a Body Condition score for the feedlot and that is compromising feed conversion and yield grade. I am not willing to sacrifice my cows fleshing ability and subsequent fertility to fix that issue. Non-test alfalfa hay is $250 a ton in my area, so if I can keep my cows in breeding condition without it; I am dollars ahead. If I were to ever feed out steers, I would run them on pasture to a higher weight in order to minimize the over condition on the carcasses.
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Post by bookcliff on Oct 2, 2014 8:18:19 GMT -6
no, I am not saying that they are too easy fleshing as cows. what I am saying is the OCh's bred feeder calves I've been around don't have enough marbling to grade and they don't have big enough ribeyes to go PAR or better for the amount of backfat they carry to not run into Yield Grade problems.
in particular instance the ability to lay on external fat at an excelerated rate will hurt carcass merit if you don't compesate it with added REA area to meet PAR Value to not get yourself into a world of pain on yeild grades.
the more external fat a calf has (AKA backfat) the bigger the ribeye has to be to not increase yeild grade.
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Post by elkwc on Oct 2, 2014 10:44:29 GMT -6
no, I am not saying that they are too easy fleshing as cows. what I am saying is the OCh's bred feeder calves I've been around don't have enough marbling to grade and they don't have big enough ribeyes to go PAR or better for the amount of backfat they carry to not run into Yield Grade problems. in particular instance the ability to lay on external fat at an excelerated rate will hurt carcass merit if you don't compesate it with added REA area to meet PAR Value to not get yourself into a world of pain on yeild grades. the more external fat a calf has (AKA backfat) the bigger the ribeye has to be to not increase yeild grade. TK some more very good info that many either don't know or care to ignore. It is like the breeders who talk about the carcass traits of their cattle and sometimes have letters from customers stating they perform well in the lot but when asked to show some data on feedlot performance and/or yield and grade many times they either get quiet or say it isn't available. I want to see actual data and performance and it should be readily available. I see a few ads where the breeder provides such or an actual statement from a feeder stating the cost of gain and the yield and grade percentages. When they leave out one element it makes me wonder why. My BIL has fed for years. With every pen he feeds and I imagine you are the same way the feedlot sends a report with all data in the feedlot on it when it is closed. Cost of gain, head lost if any, any culls, ect. In my opinion this info is way more valuable than all the predicted EPD's that many times have little relevant value. I always ask breeders for any info on feedlot and packer performance of progeny from their bulls but very few can provide it. Another tool I use is I talk to the feeder buyers I know and the feedlot managers and ask them what Herefords or Angus have done well for them. They keep up with that more than many know. They can tell you many times where a pen originated and how they performed. I use every tool I have available when selecting a bull and many times still feel I don't have enough proven data and too much data based on predictions.
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Post by shumakerherefords on Oct 2, 2014 12:01:15 GMT -6
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Post by elkwc on Oct 2, 2014 17:10:16 GMT -6
Everyone has different opinions. A complete feedlot report is the best. But as one person who has fed cattle for many years told me feed conversion and cost of gain is the two most important items to him. He also likes to see how they grade and feeds quality cattle that sell well. But I remember what a very successful feedlot manager and owner told me once. Slab sided heifers with frame made him a millionaire. Because he could buy them so much cheaper he could absorb some of the reduced ADG. Each successful feeder has a method that works for them but I've yet to see one that didn't consider cost of gain important if compared to similar cattle being fed at the same time. I've never seen a one that said it was worthless even by itself but with a feedlot report it is never by itself.
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Post by bookcliff on Oct 2, 2014 20:52:18 GMT -6
Everyone has different opinions. A complete feedlot report is the best. But as one person who has fed cattle for many years told me feed conversion and cost of gain is the two most important items to him. He also likes to see how they grade and feeds quality cattle that sell well. But I remember what a very successful feedlot manager and owner told me once. Slab sided heifers with frame made him a millionaire. Because he could buy them so much cheaper he could absorb some of the reduced ADG. Each successful feeder has a method that works for them but I've yet to see one that didn't consider cost of gain important if compared to similar cattle being fed at the same time. I've never seen a one that said it was worthless even by itself but with a feedlot report it is never by itself. couldn't agree more. the most money Andrea & I ever made on a set of calves were a potload and a half of t0tally mismanaged hereford calves (from a registered breder who at the time had production sale no less) I bought outa central KS back in the mid 90's. selling in a hrdcore Angus barn, no shots, not dehorned, weaned but not fed just running on winter grass, a bunch hadn't been cut and were 4 wt calves with 7 wt frame-- green green green, so green that any greener and they would have been stunted beyond upgrading. We hadn't showed up to buy those calves, but another set of 8 wt feeder calves from a bull customer of ours (which we bought too) but they were about 35 bucks back of the market ( and back thats when 4 wts were around a buck) so we bought em. lived with em for about 30 days, cleaned em up and turned em out on the Horizon and they proceeded to bust apart at the seams, went to grass weigh 4, sold in late Sept weight close to 9. We made so much coin on them calves they bought us a brand new 1997 F350 crew cab 4x4 with cash that fall. moral of the story, alot of money is made by turning chickenshit into chickensalad in this business.
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