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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Oct 15, 2014 19:35:13 GMT -6
This is a first calf heifer with her April born Sensation bull calf. Should wean two thirds her body weight , on native pasture, no creep, no improved grass This is the heifer I mentioned in an earlier post that never seems to have much of a bag. For what i see around here it's impressive. In our well documented herd we get slightly above of 1/3 of the cow weight as weaning weight at 210 days. On a few cows about 42%. Fescue sure has some impact but anyhow the cow efficiency should be better.
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Post by bltherf on Oct 15, 2014 20:08:27 GMT -6
I have heard for years and believed that if we had only one measurement tool to evaluate cows it would be to weigh the cow and calf at weaning time and try to develop cows that would wean 50% of their body weight in the weaned calf. That would automatically factor in milk,growth,and fertility and lead to a pretty efficient cow herd. Have been keeping this as a goal,for many years, not all are there yet, but some are, so have been trying to propagate those lines .
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Post by timbernt on Oct 15, 2014 20:11:17 GMT -6
Hell, Byron, our Jersey milk cow did that years ago.
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Oct 15, 2014 20:28:34 GMT -6
I have heard for years and believed that if we had only one measurement tool to evaluate cows it would be to weigh the cow and calf at weaning time and try to develop cows that would wean 50% of their body weight in the weaned calf. That would automatically factor in milk,growth,and fertility and lead to a pretty efficient cow herd. Have been keeping this as a goal,for many years, not all are there yet, but some are, so have been trying to propagate those lines . That's my thinking as well and I may add a breeding season less than 60 days.
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Post by bltherf on Oct 15, 2014 21:28:15 GMT -6
Hell, Byron, our Jersey milk cow did that years ago I always suspected you were a master breeder Tim
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Post by larso on Oct 15, 2014 23:40:29 GMT -6
At what age is the calf at weaning Byron ? cause that can make a big difference. I'm trying to leave my calves on the cows for at least 9mths but I realize that isn't always possible in low rainfall environments or droughts.
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Post by hoekland on Oct 16, 2014 4:36:05 GMT -6
My Sensation bullcalf is stylish alright, just not very thick, looks more like a typical poll calf than a horned calf at this stage.
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Post by bltherf on Oct 16, 2014 7:54:13 GMT -6
At what age is the calf at weaning Byron ? cause that can make a big difference. I'm trying to leave my calves on the cows for at least 9mths but I realize that isn't always possible in low rainfall environments or droughts. We try to wean around the 205 day mark, but it usuall ends up a bit more. This just fits in with getting April. May calves settled in before winter Also minimizes the adjustment factor of 205 days, which most performance programs adjust to . Our breed performance program at the CHA requires weaning records to be in by Nov 1 in order to send them to ABRI in Aus for analysis. That makes it difficult for us up here to wean later, as there are many times we would prefer to leave them out longer,without having to gather everything just to weigh. Agree with you Hoekland, a lot of the Sensation calves are stylish and could use some more thickness ,but then he is a real deal heifer bull, and in my experience most all the real good calving ease heifer bulls I have used were that way.
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Post by hoekland on Oct 16, 2014 12:59:36 GMT -6
Here are a few pics of the said Sensation calf. This is more the type of natural thickness I want to see, both these calves are about 10 days old and 2 weeks younger than the Sensation calf
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Post by elkwc on Oct 16, 2014 16:15:10 GMT -6
I have seen a limited number of Sensation calves, bulls and a few 2 yr old heifers with calves. What I've seen is he moderates frame and muscling. But all I've seen are square with a leg on each corner and better muscled than 95% of the polled cattle I've seen. I haven't seen one yet with a cone shaped rear end like many of the polled cattle I've looked at. The Sensation calves don't rub their hocks together when they walk. And as heavy muscled as a large percentage of L1 cattle I've seen. They are stylish but most are on the low end of the needed frame size. Most I've seen are upper 4's to low 5's. But all the heifers with calves I saw had excellent udders and very good calves beside them. I would love to have a polled bull by him to use on heifers. Everyone I've talked too said he is the real deal when it comes to a heifer bull. I've seen some others touted as heifer bulls that haven't been what they were promoted to be. The other thing I've been told is the Sensation calves have lots of vigor and grow fast.
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Post by hrndherf on Nov 11, 2014 21:32:28 GMT -6
028x calves don't look impressive at a young age, but here, they look better at weaning.
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Post by bllcattle on Nov 12, 2014 6:00:50 GMT -6
We are excited about our 028x calves so far. Birth weights were perfect out of heifers and weaning weights also good. They are early maturing cattle with some shape and style. Happy so far.
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Post by lcc on May 22, 2017 9:05:04 GMT -6
Here are a few pics of the said Sensation calf. Harley, how did this calf turn out? Does anyone have any other updates on Sensation cattle?
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Post by hoekland on May 22, 2017 12:32:08 GMT -6
He was alright. Took off after weaning. Sold him to a Namibian buyer, saw him just last week. Very correct, but not enough bull for my tase. I'll post a pic when he was about 10 months old aa soon aa I get the chance
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Post by hoekland on May 22, 2017 12:42:12 GMT -6
I've seen some good Sensation sons, but uou need a very rugged powerful cow to help him out
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Post by elkwc on May 22, 2017 15:33:08 GMT -6
I've seen some good Sensation sons, but uou need a very rugged powerful cow to help him out I've seen some good sons. Many I have seen have came from Stubers. Don't know their cowherd but they seem to cross better than many do with him. Overall I like the 3027's and the 5216's as groups better.
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Post by strojanherefords on May 22, 2017 22:25:20 GMT -6
I won't use Sensation nor will I buy anything out of a Churchill animal. I have gotten to the point where I will only bring in cattle from people I trust and Dale Venhuizen betrayed the trust I placed in him. When I bought the first bunch of cows from Alberta, Andy hauled the cows as far as Churchill's with the understanding that the trucker would pick up my cows along with four of Dale's the next day. A couple days go by and my cows are still at Dale's. I ask him what is going on and he says there is a problem with the trucker. Later I learn, Dale told the trucker that the "health papers" on his cows won't be ready till the next week. My cows spent five unexplained days at Dale Venhuizen's being, treated who knows how, fed who knows what. The net end result was that my cows that I was planning on breeding for September calves didn't cycle for a couple of weeks. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
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Post by hoekland on May 22, 2017 22:51:32 GMT -6
That is a pity when you experience that from a well known breeder. I won't use Sensation as I don't think its the direction the breed should go. We have lost more than enough breed character already and I'll start by using my eyes and common sense till the powers that be help us out... And I am not implying that Ssn is impure, butvhe's just not what I think we should select for for the betterment if the greater breed
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Post by fivestarherefords on May 23, 2017 4:06:21 GMT -6
I won't use Sensation nor will I buy anything out of a Churchill animal. I have gotten to the point where I will only bring in cattle from people I trust and Dale Venhuizen betrayed the trust I placed in him. When I bought the first bunch of cows from Alberta, Andy hauled the cows as far as Churchill's with the understanding that the trucker would pick up my cows along with four of Dale's the next day. A couple days go by and my cows are still at Dale's. I ask him what is going on and he says there is a problem with the trucker. Later I learn, Dale told the trucker that the "health papers" on his cows won't be ready till the next week. My cows spent five unexplained days at Dale Venhuizen's being, treated who knows how, fed who knows what. The net end result was that my cows that I was planning on breeding for September calves didn't cycle for a couple of weeks. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Let me get this straight. Churchill allowed you to have cattle imported and dropped at their place as a courtesy, no charge I presume. The cows arrive and his are expected to jump straight on the next truck waiting in the parking lot? There are lots of variables that come into play when trucking cattle and to think you are trashing a fellow beeeder because they did you a favor is pitiful. And to think cattle are going to come straight off the truck from a long transport and immediately cycle is ignorant. I'd consider a couple weeks a success.
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Post by lcc on May 23, 2017 7:33:33 GMT -6
I won't use Sensation nor will I buy anything out of a Churchill animal. I have gotten to the point where I will only bring in cattle from people I trust and Dale Venhuizen betrayed the trust I placed in him. When I bought the first bunch of cows from Alberta, Andy hauled the cows as far as Churchill's with the understanding that the trucker would pick up my cows along with four of Dale's the next day. A couple days go by and my cows are still at Dale's. I ask him what is going on and he says there is a problem with the trucker. Later I learn, Dale told the trucker that the "health papers" on his cows won't be ready till the next week. My cows spent five unexplained days at Dale Venhuizen's being, treated who knows how, fed who knows what. The net end result was that my cows that I was planning on breeding for September calves didn't cycle for a couple of weeks. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Let me get this straight. Churchill allowed you to have cattle imported and dropped at their place as a courtesy, no charge I presume. The cows arrive and his are expected to jump straight on the next truck waiting in the parking lot? There are lots of variables that come into play when trucking cattle and to think you are trashing a fellow breeder because they did you a favor is pitiful. And to think cattle are going to come straight off the truck from a long transport and immediately cycle is ignorant. I'd consider a couple weeks a success. Not to mention a cow cycles every three weeks, so the fact they were cycling in a couple weeks is probably... well... normal.
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Post by jjbcattleco on May 23, 2017 8:30:30 GMT -6
I won't use Sensation nor will I buy anything out of a Churchill animal. I have gotten to the point where I will only bring in cattle from people I trust and Dale Venhuizen betrayed the trust I placed in him. When I bought the first bunch of cows from Alberta, Andy hauled the cows as far as Churchill's with the understanding that the trucker would pick up my cows along with four of Dale's the next day. A couple days go by and my cows are still at Dale's. I ask him what is going on and he says there is a problem with the trucker. Later I learn, Dale told the trucker that the "health papers" on his cows won't be ready till the next week. My cows spent five unexplained days at Dale Venhuizen's being, treated who knows how, fed who knows what. The net end result was that my cows that I was planning on breeding for September calves didn't cycle for a couple of weeks. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. If you're running things that close with transport of cattle from a different country shame on you in the first place. Sounds like you should have had your own ducks in a much better row and allowed for more time. Did you think they would have stuck in the 5 days they spent in Montana? Maybe you could have done a 7 day CIDR protocol to get them jumpstarted?
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Post by strojanherefords on May 23, 2017 15:27:26 GMT -6
I won't use Sensation nor will I buy anything out of a Churchill animal. I have gotten to the point where I will only bring in cattle from people I trust and Dale Venhuizen betrayed the trust I placed in him. When I bought the first bunch of cows from Alberta, Andy hauled the cows as far as Churchill's with the understanding that the trucker would pick up my cows along with four of Dale's the next day. A couple days go by and my cows are still at Dale's. I ask him what is going on and he says there is a problem with the trucker. Later I learn, Dale told the trucker that the "health papers" on his cows won't be ready till the next week. My cows spent five unexplained days at Dale Venhuizen's being, treated who knows how, fed who knows what. The net end result was that my cows that I was planning on breeding for September calves didn't cycle for a couple of weeks. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Let me get this straight. Churchill allowed you to have cattle imported and dropped at their place as a courtesy, no charge I presume. The cows arrive and his are expected to jump straight on the next truck waiting in the parking lot? There are lots of variables that come into play when trucking cattle and to think you are trashing a fellow beeeder because they did you a favor is pitiful. And to think cattle are going to come straight off the truck from a long transport and immediately cycle is ignorant. I'd consider a couple weeks a success. Five Star, the only reason my eleven cows went to Churchill was so that the Churchill cows could hitch a ride on the same trip, it would have been preferable for me if the cows wouldn't have stopped over. I understand stuff happens but that wasn't what happened in this case. Dale told two different stories about why the cows were delayed.
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Post by elkwc on May 23, 2017 17:26:21 GMT -6
Let me get this straight. Churchill allowed you to have cattle imported and dropped at their place as a courtesy, no charge I presume. The cows arrive and his are expected to jump straight on the next truck waiting in the parking lot? There are lots of variables that come into play when trucking cattle and to think you are trashing a fellow beeeder because they did you a favor is pitiful. And to think cattle are going to come straight off the truck from a long transport and immediately cycle is ignorant. I'd consider a couple weeks a success. Five Star, the only reason my eleven cows went to Churchill was so that the Churchill cows could hitch a ride on the same trip, it would have been preferable for me if the cows wouldn't have stopped over. I understand stuff happens but that wasn't what happened in this case. Dale told two different stories about why the cows were delayed. I've heard several breeders I trust say Dale's Dad was as good as gold and Dale was just the opposite. Personally I haven't had any dealings with him and likely never will. So don't have an opinion but if I ever did I would be very careful
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