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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2011 19:39:19 GMT -6
Last friday Havre research station topped the pairs sold that day. $300/pair...... its no wonder ranchers still cuss a hereford. all cancer eye cows.
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Post by Glenn on May 24, 2011 21:48:40 GMT -6
I'm confused!
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 11:01:58 GMT -6
oh just more sacrastic remarks. i've had a beef with the Havre research station - nothing to do with the program and their studies or even the cattle. i just get upset when those guys brag about how much they've done for the beef industry in the past and more than likely for years to come (which they have) but then they have no problem undermining herefords when they unload a string of cancer eye cow/calf pairs at the local auction and the whole crowd in attendance is once again reminded why they don't use a hereford bull. they also sell a lot of "cheap" hereford bulls
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Post by Glenn on May 25, 2011 11:06:40 GMT -6
Ah, I thought it was sarcasm, but then thought maybe you left out a zero and meant $3,000! LOL!
That is a Hereford problem: the numbers are so low on Hereford cows that any for sale at the barn are likely bad eyed or bad uddered which further sears a bad image into certain people'e eyes!
A commercial guy would have a darn hard time putting together a group of say 100 good commercial Herefords. If he did find them they'd be priced sky high as to make them unreasonable as commercial cows. I know. I've been there.
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Post by rockmillsfarm on May 29, 2011 7:55:15 GMT -6
I wonder what they're doing about it, have the dams, grand dams and sires of those cancer eyes all been culled too, or will their next sale have full sibs for sale in it? I see they have (or claim to have) dna markers now for just about everything you would want to know and dna test for IE etc, lets put this crap to rest with the dna marker or a dna test for prolapse and cancer eye. I'd gladly test mine if it was available.
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Post by bookcliff on May 30, 2011 19:49:46 GMT -6
typical fed or state cow deals. Saw some of the same stuff at KSU, both when I was on the cowboy crew while giong to school there and afterwords. the one good thing now at KSU is that Ryan Briener/Dan Mosier are starting to get the Hereford program straightened out and don't pull "Havre kind of things" like some of the other guys had done before. always pissed me off that some of the worst hereford bulls both phenotype and pereformance wise in the state of kansas for a long time were sold at the KSU's bull sale immediately following the annual Cattlemens Day meetings .it bad enough that the bulls were a lot of 100lb + BW's, but some were even in the 400's for 205, nuts as small as 29.5 and horrid ultrasound, nothing like that in front of 500 to 600 people from all over the state.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2011 16:16:58 GMT -6
FWIW, none of the current Havre Herefords descend from the Havre King Dominos and all of them descend from the Miles City Line 1's. Havre dispersed the King Dominos in the early '70s and has just been using Miles City stock since then.
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Post by rockmillsfarm on Jun 4, 2011 11:18:03 GMT -6
FWIW, none of the current Havre Herefords descend from the Havre King Dominos and all of them descend from the Miles City Line 1's. Havre dispersed the King Dominos in the early '70s and has just been using Miles City stock since then. Why, I wouldn't think you would disperse a whole line unless there's a problem. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2011 13:06:50 GMT -6
FWIW, none of the current Havre Herefords descend from the Havre King Dominos and all of them descend from the Miles City Line 1's. Havre dispersed the King Dominos in the early '70s and has just been using Miles City stock since then. Why, I wouldn't think you would disperse a whole line unless there's a problem. I spoke with Don Anderson, who was the manager of the King Dominos at Havre, shortly before he retired. He told me he wasn't aware of any genetic defects in the line. I asked him about soundness problems and he said "nothing any worse than any other lines at that time". The stated reason they gave for dispersing them was "because they could". The most reasonable explanation I have heard was that it was cheaper for them to share the Miles City Line 1's than to maintain their own line. MARC, in Nebraska, also occasionally hauls down an infusion of Miles City Line 1's, just as the West Coast Florida station at Brookville, FL did. Also, the Miles Ctiy station is federal funded and Havre is funded by the state of Montana. Don Anderson worked at Miles City prior to taking over at Havre. There used to be a poster who went by "DaveK" who posted on the old yahoo.linebreeders site and the Advantage Cattle site. He was a geneticist or something with Cornel university. He claimed to be a personal friend of Don Anderson's son and he claimed Don's son had the story that the King Dominos carried a genetic abnormality for a heart defect. If that was the case Don never admitted it to me and I have seen no evidence of it. Around 1990 there was a polled Hereford bull that was rumored to carry a genetic heart defect, he was a mix of several bloodlines. Dickinson, ND claimed they had a KD heifer calf that had a defect of the reproductive tract and they believed it was genetic. The calf was a natural calf that was conceived following a flush. It sounded like a free-martin, to me and I have had no calves born with similar problems. The major fault of the KD's was that they couldn't compete with the horsey cattle that were sought afer in 70's. |
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Post by rockmillsfarm on Jun 5, 2011 19:42:20 GMT -6
I spoke with Don Anderson, who was the manager of the King Dominos at Havre, shortly before he retired. He told me he wasn't aware of any genetic defects in the line. I asked him about soundness problems and he said "nothing any worse than any other lines at that time". The stated reason they gave for dispersing them was "because they could". The most reasonable explanation I have heard was that it was cheaper for them to share the Miles City Line 1's than to maintain their own line. MARC, in Nebraska, also occasionally hauls down an infusion of Miles City Line 1's, just as the West Coast Florida station at Brookville, FL did. Also, the Miles Ctiy station is federal funded and Havre is funded by the state of Montana. Don Anderson worked at Miles City prior to taking over at Havre. There used to be a poster who went by "DaveK" who posted on the old yahoo.linebreeders site and the Advantage Cattle site. He was a geneticist or something with Cornel university. He claimed to be a personal friend of Don Anderson's son and he claimed Don's son had the story that the King Dominos carried a genetic abnormality for a heart defect. If that was the case Don never admitted it to me and I have seen no evidence of it. Around 1990 there was a polled Hereford bull that was rumored to carry a genetic heart defect, he was a mix of several bloodlines. Dickinson, ND claimed they had a KD heifer calf that had a defect of the reproductive tract and they believed it was genetic. The calf was a natural calf that was conceived following a flush. It sounded like a free-martin, to me and I have had no calves born with similar problems. The major fault of the KD's was that they couldn't compete with the horsey cattle that were sought afer in 70's. Figured that was a tough question beings you use that line, I appreciate the candid response. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2011 12:50:45 GMT -6
FWIW, none of the current Havre Herefords descend from the Havre King Dominos and all of them descend from the Miles City Line 1's. Havre dispersed the King Dominos in the early '70s and has just been using Miles City stock since then. didn't mean to knock you. can you show a pedigree to a KD sire you are using or used. maybe i'm thinking wrong but what started the polled KD's? our neighbor used a polled kd bull a long time ago on their hartland cattle and i had a handful of cows bred that way from him when he retired. seems like you've said maybe you or only a couple people are maintaining those cattle - did you get stock when they dispersed or what spurred the interest... just curious this is what you are talking about with Havre KD? www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=232B21&2=2434&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5B5C58252759212620&9=52535Ealso does anyone know much about the L9 cattle and did anyone else use L9 for a prefix? www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=232B21&2=232F50&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5B5B5C252721262721&9=525350 |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2011 15:45:16 GMT -6
FWIW, none of the current Havre Herefords descend from the Havre King Dominos and all of them descend from the Miles City Line 1's. Havre dispersed the King Dominos in the early '70s and has just been using Miles City stock since then. didn't mean to knock you. can you show a pedigree to a KD sire you are using or used. maybe i'm thinking wrong but what started the polled KD's? our neighbor used a polled kd bull a long time ago on their hartland cattle and i had a handful of cows bred that way from him when he retired. seems like you've said maybe you or only a couple people are maintaining those cattle - did you get stock when they dispersed or what spurred the interest... just curious this is what you are talking about with Havre KD? www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=232B21&2=2434&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5B5C58252759212620&9=52535Ealso does anyone know much about the L9 cattle and did anyone else use L9 for a prefix? www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=232B21&2=232F50&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5B5B5C252721262721&9=525350This is the bull from the Havre King Domino line that has been used the most in the last 10 years: www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=232B21&2=2934&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5B595B5A5859272E2D&9=5E535C&11=525F51&12=4241404F2DThis is a bull that I raised and sold to a man in Montana who had good results using the 71J bull: www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=232B21&2=232F50&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5A5D5C232325202525&9=5E535A I am using a flush brother to this bull, 737. The Havre King Dominos descended from polled cows linebred to the polled bulls King Domino and his sire Mossy Plato 26 that Havre purchased from the Dingwall herd in MT. They are a polled line, although the horn gene is in them still. Havre had them from 1948 till 1971 or 1972. The Miles City Line 9's descended from cattle purchased from the same herd by Miles City, but the two herds were separate in every way except they had common ancestors. The first bull pedigree you posted is from a Havre King Domino, the second pedigree is from a Miles City King Domino. There was pretty good demand for both the Miles City and Havre Herefords in the 70's because they were performance tested and people were looking for documented growth. It was in that time frame that both lines were sold out. Beartooth bought some of the top ones and outcrossed all of them. Dr Kile (Cumberland Farms) bought some and Frank Kubik, near Manning, ND, bought some and linebred them. When he retired, he donated his ranch and his top females to the North Dakota State in nearby Dickinson, ND. That was in 80 or 81. NDSU didn't do much with them, so they were approached by some Hereford breeders to either do something with them or sell what few were left. In the early 90's they sold out. Schaar Herefords and a Canadian bought what was left. The Canadian dropped out a few years later and I bought what was left from Neil Schaar in fall 2001. I had stopped and looked at a King Domino bull Schaar's had for sale in the late 90's, but passed on him simply because I ddin't know enough about the line. So, I knew something about them when Neil offeredthem to me for sale in 2001. I bought them because I wanted a linebred line of polled Hereford cattle to work with. I certainly got what I wanted. |
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Post by mrvictordomino on Jun 10, 2011 20:25:59 GMT -6
John, how many King Domino cattle do you have?
Are there anymore out there? I remember the ads from
Cumberland View featuring the 68734 bull "King" and the
Kubik ads as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2011 12:39:19 GMT -6
John, how many King Domino cattle do you have? Are there anymore out there? I remember the ads from Cumberland View featuring the 68734 bull "King" and the Kubik ads as well. Today, 6/11/11, there are: 21 breeding age females(though some will be culled and 10 are heifers); 4-2011 heifer calves;3-2011 bull calves;1-left to calf soon;lost 2-2011 calves;1-3yr old bull;2-2 yr old bulls; 2-yearling bulls;Grand total: 33 straight pedigreed Havre King Dominos upright today. I have semen on: hl1 king dom 71224;hl1 king dom 71200;hl 1k domino 6528; kphr hl1 king dom 8;kphr hl1 king d 3165;r5 k domino 456;havre king dom 6528 74h;havre king domino 71j;havre king dom 1;havre king dom 1 3et;af king domino 222;af hl king domino 505;I also can get semen on hl 1 king dom 71183;hp king dom 2255;hl1 king dom 71176;hl 1k domino 24. That is semen on 16 straight King Domino bulls. 7 of which were bred at Havre, 2 bred by Frank Kubik, 4 bred by Schaar Herefords, 1 bred by r5 ranch and 2 bred by us. This is the 10th year that I have owned them. I believe there were 6 cows, 5 heifers and 2 herd bulls when I bought them. Lots of culling. |
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