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Post by bookcliff on Sept 20, 2015 15:15:33 GMT -6
I have been a member of this board for a few years but I have chosen not to comment on it because I felt that what I said would most likely just be put down. That being said, because I feel that there are a lot of great comments being posted on this thread I have decided to add my two cents. While I realize that there are many breeders on this forum who have much more experience than I do, I feel that some of those breeders lack the open mindedness and respect that some of us younger breeders possess. I think that we must always remember that although we are all breeders of cattle, we’re all trying to reach different goals in different environments with different target markets. While a high dollar show animal may be of no value to you, a great producing range cow may be of no value to someone producing show cattle- it’s all a matter of perspective. I completely agree that there is a large variation in the type of Herefords that are marketed around the world (and even just North America), but I see that as a good thing because it allows buyers to purchase animals that they feel should excel in their exact situations. Anyone who has seen me judge a junior show or work with young breeders knows that I strongly believe in constructive criticism. I think that it’s very important to be hard on the kids and push them to succeed but it must be done in a positive and encouraging manner. If you push too hard or just plain tell them that they suck they’re just going to get upset and not want to try to get better. I think that the same thing goes for these forums- constructive criticism is a very useful tool but there is a big difference between being helpful and being a jerk. Probably the best piece of advice that I ever received came from my mom a few years ago. She told me “Never be afraid to say what you want to say, just remember that there’s always a tactful way to say it”. I believe that there is a great deal of knowledge that could be taken from this forum and the people who use it if only everyone would just be a little more open minded and respectful. Larissa Lupul Owner of Barefoot Polled Herefords and former CJHA President Larissa, while I can agree with just about everything you posted, especially the paragraph about young breeders and constructive criticism, I do have somewhat a different viewpoint on show cattle vs range cows. most range guysthier progrmas around the things most relavant within the commerical beef indutry with a singular goal to provide genetics that will advance their customers involved in the day to day business of conception thru consumption. to this end we also know and accept that if we step into the realm of the show-world with those same cattle as of late we expect to have a less than steller placings in class. that is our choice and we reconize that. however, my issue is the vast majority show programs singular goal is to win a banner at the detrement of many of the traits neccessary to in all other aspects of beef production. we need not go into those specific traits as they have been dicussed in many a thread here on HT over the last 3 or 4 years. If those programs choose to do so that is their business and if they would confine themselves within the tanbark as such, I have no issue with them. however, they often don't and those genetics are often times marketed with little regard to the issues that they will create for some unsuspecting commerical man where they most usually cause a "Hereford- one and done" effect which does effect the preception of the viability of the HEreford breed in teh commerical beef sector and that does effect guys like me. plain an simple, show cattle and range cattle are not one in the same at this current time. each are selected for drastically different end points so to speak and as such should generally confine theselves accorddingly to their own "arena", but that is very often not the case with show programs.
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Post by George on Sept 21, 2015 11:09:53 GMT -6
I have been a member of this board for a few years but I have chosen not to comment on it because I felt that what I said would most likely just be put down. That being said, because I feel that there are a lot of great comments being posted on this thread I have decided to add my two cents. While I realize that there are many breeders on this forum who have much more experience than I do, I feel that some of those breeders lack the open mindedness and respect that some of us younger breeders possess. I think that we must always remember that although we are all breeders of cattle, we’re all trying to reach different goals in different environments with different target markets. While a high dollar show animal may be of no value to you, a great producing range cow may be of no value to someone producing show cattle- it’s all a matter of perspective. I completely agree that there is a large variation in the type of Herefords that are marketed around the world (and even just North America), but I see that as a good thing because it allows buyers to purchase animals that they feel should excel in their exact situations. Anyone who has seen me judge a junior show or work with young breeders knows that I strongly believe in constructive criticism. I think that it’s very important to be hard on the kids and push them to succeed but it must be done in a positive and encouraging manner. If you push too hard or just plain tell them that they suck they’re just going to get upset and not want to try to get better. I think that the same thing goes for these forums- constructive criticism is a very useful tool but there is a big difference between being helpful and being a jerk. Probably the best piece of advice that I ever received came from my mom a few years ago. She told me “Never be afraid to say what you want to say, just remember that there’s always a tactful way to say it”. I believe that there is a great deal of knowledge that could be taken from this forum and the people who use it if only everyone would just be a little more open minded and respectful. Larissa Lupul Owner of Barefoot Polled Herefords and former CJHA President Larissa, I was waiting until I could get back to a computer to reply to your post..and now I am probably just echoing some of the other replies. The concern that I have is that it appears that the current trend in the showring is going farther and farther away from the TYPE of cattle that are needed for the commercial industry. Ultimately, I believe Hereford cattle should be BEEF producers, not lawn ornaments. When we get the winning showring "type" so far away from the everyday needs of the majority of the commercial cattle producers, we are doing a huge disservice to the Hereford breed and a majority of its breeders. We saw that in the 40s and 50s. So I sincerely hope that the current trend in the showring moderates and reverses...or perhaps the showring cattle will get put into another "category" like the mini Herefords are....a niche market that has little relevance to "real world" beef producers. There are some breeders that think we are already there. I think our shows should reflect the type of cattle needed by the commercial industry and beef producers. I USED to think that breeders could produce cattle for the commercial industry and still compete in the showring. With the current trend, I am no longer sure that is the case. If the current trend continues, it certainly won't be possible.
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Post by moon on Sept 21, 2015 11:50:27 GMT -6
I agree with the comments of George and Bookcliff in their last two posts. Further, most of us in past and at present have seen steers from the breeders who primarily emphasize showing and then programs of breeders who concentrate on providing the commercial cattle industry with useful Hereford genetics when they go through a local sale barn or in the feedyard. The great divide between price and quality.
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Post by elkwc on Oct 4, 2015 17:46:13 GMT -6
[/p][/quote] Off subject just a tad. I would love a 1,200 lb mature cow. Bad thing is I have 1,000 lb heifers that I breed and looking at them I don't think theyre too big. I just put Quiet Wean flaps in and most register on the scales around 700lbs with 2 more weeks to go and thats EARLY for me weaning. I would say my cattle and most cattle here in NC Kansas are 5.5- 6.5 with more 7 frame then you'd think and 1500-1600lbs oh around 4-5 years old. Cull them at 8-10 and they're pushing 1700-1900. You don't realize your cattle are that big until you run them through your chute and scales. I just can't bring myself to consistently use a sub frame 5 bull like say Ribeye 88X or Perfect Timing. I'm afraid they'll get too small. I like a happy medium. I just don't know if my environment can accept moderate cattle AT THIS TIME. Anyways sorry, off topic. Id really like to see more cattle on here with constructive criticism. Sometimes what is obvious to more experienced breeders may not be obvious to others. Its like telling a farmer that a pre-emerge is a must if you're going to control weeds. You can say "are you F'ing blind?" or you can say "perhaps you should consider a fall application to control annuals and a different chemistry in the spring to prevent resistant pigweeds from ever emerging". One way goes over better than the other, even though you'd rather say the former. [/quote] Your cattle maybe just a tad larger than I desire but way more to my liking than the 1150-1250 mature cows so many are raising. I feel to raise a commercial calf that will perform well all the way to the rail a cow needs to be at least 1350. I prefer them that to 1500. Most of the older cows that shipped this year went around 1500. One cow went 1860. If your herd was closer I would sure come and take a peek.
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Post by hoekland on Oct 5, 2015 3:48:57 GMT -6
1350 lbs is just about right for me, but I still want it in a frame 5 pakage. A frame 7 1350 lb cow won't last two seasons here
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Oct 5, 2015 6:38:24 GMT -6
1350 lbs is just about right for me, but I still want it in a frame 5 pakage. Same thing here.
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Post by oldduffer on Oct 5, 2015 8:06:07 GMT -6
RE: 1ffarm's comment on "the difference between a show Hereford & a beef Hereford there should be NO difference........." You are right on! I don't remember who said this: "The only difference between a show bull and a range bull should be a BATH!" How true......and think of the progress our breed could make if our show committee understood that!
"Extremism to protect liberty is no vice!"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 17:10:40 GMT -6
1350 lbs is just about right for me, but I still want it in a frame 5 pakage. Same thing here. Frame 5 is pretty much the standard everywhere. Angus x Braford heifer due to calve on her second birthday.
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Post by picketwire on Oct 5, 2015 21:19:29 GMT -6
Nice 'evil' grin on that nice baldy heifer!!
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Post by tartancowgirl on Oct 7, 2015 12:59:44 GMT -6
RE: 1ffarm's comment on "the difference between a show Hereford & a beef Hereford there should be NO difference........." You are right on! I don't remember who said this: "The only difference between a show bull and a range bull should be a BATH!" How true......and think of the progress our breed could make if our show committee understood that! "Extremism to protect liberty is no vice!" Only difference between a show bull and a range bull should be a bath!! Brilliant! Must remember that one!
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Post by Glenn on Oct 7, 2015 14:45:47 GMT -6
Awesome......."Brilliant" made me think of the silly Guinness Beer commercials!!!
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