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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 12:59:25 GMT -6
i guess i like the not so subtle gestures too. by the way harley - i wish you'd get on the ball and put some pictures up. you had a bull pictured as a yearling or maybe it was a two year old i thought looked awfull good. kinda of almost yellow bull, curly haired, nice head on him. pretty good feather.
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Post by rockmillsherefords on Feb 17, 2013 17:36:06 GMT -6
Been to South America last week and didn't have a chance to respond to some comments on this thread. Ace, I know of some smaller Polled herds that are doing a good job of breeding cattle for their environments. They are not heavily advertised and most will not hear about them. As far as the Trask cattle are concerned, their is a fellow in Blairsville, GA that has started posting on CT that has probably the second largest concentration of Trask blood besides Fowken Farms of South Carolina. I will send him an invitation to this site. He has been breeding these cattle for forty-five years and I'm sure he can comment on this line. John is correct in that there has been many herds and bloodlines on the polled side that have just disappeared due to the heavy influence of the show ring on the polled side. As far as I'm concerned, especially in the decade of the eighties, we screwed up big time letting the show ring dictate the direction of the breed. Herds like Blanchard and Lindgern, Glenn Burrows, Ogeechee Farms and others are now lost forever. As far as the Polled vs. Horned deal, I don't care about that at all, I think there probably are more Horned cattle that are hardier on the range mainly due to the fact that there were more Horned breeders breeding cattle for what they were intended to do, reproduce and produce beef, not win a purple ribbon..... The article in the January HW did have some opinions that while I did appreciate them, I would think, or hope to think there are better herds out there with better udders and more consistency. Breeding cattle is a never ending process and if you think you have achieved your goal, you need to set a higher one. The comment by John Meents about the cattle being small I would tend to disagree with, but realizing that most all the herds he visits have allot of show ring type genetics I would say they would look smaller to him. They are not the 2.7 frame cattle like the bull at the top of this thread. 5-6 frame is what we would like to stay in. As far as a pure polled herd....I can recall about 7-8 horned calves out of the last 1,000 born here, and a few scurred ones as well. Not bad in my opinion considering the bloodline I am perpetuating. DM i wan't trying to say your cattle and the trask bull were alike. i was trying to use them to show how much different they can be under different selection mngmt (linebreeding programs) and probably environment. trying to get at where is the polled herd that has been developed/linebred/selected for my area. a herd where you could take one of the females and put it out with mine and i wouldn't be able to tell the difference? thats all. and i'm not really interested in trying polls, and that does'nt mean i'm against them either... i'm kinda of a see it to believe it guy. a black baldy is a pretty proven thing - so if i'm going to dehorn naturally is going to be with a black bull. the females that work here are pretty specific and i ain't gonna go messin with that without seeing it first. you guys can call it poll bashin all you want - i get sick of hearing i'm bashing the breed because i speak my opinion or talk about what works from my view. I’d be real interested in dropping off maybe a bred heifer or something like that, something that would be 3rd or 4th generation here that I’ve had some control over, probably more for my amusement than yours. It would be interesting to see how she would perform in the waaay different environment. The 2300 mile trip would be a bit of a ride though.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 19:58:08 GMT -6
i wan't trying to say your cattle and the trask bull were alike. i was trying to use them to show how much different they can be under different selection mngmt (linebreeding programs) and probably environment. trying to get at where is the polled herd that has been developed/linebred/selected for my area. a herd where you could take one of the females and put it out with mine and i wouldn't be able to tell the difference? thats all. and i'm not really interested in trying polls, and that does'nt mean i'm against them either... i'm kinda of a see it to believe it guy. a black baldy is a pretty proven thing - so if i'm going to dehorn naturally is going to be with a black bull. the females that work here are pretty specific and i ain't gonna go messin with that without seeing it first. you guys can call it poll bashin all you want - i get sick of hearing i'm bashing the breed because i speak my opinion or talk about what works from my view. I’d be real interested in dropping off maybe a bred heifer or something like that, something that would be 3rd or 4th generation here that I’ve had some control over, probably more for my amusement than yours. It would be interesting to see how she would perform in the waaay different environment. The 2300 mile trip would be a bit of a ride though. i think maybe a visit with bltherf and lily would save the effort. seems like the pictures you posted were pretty similair to some of what they are trying. i'd probably just get accused of something. besides i've had my fill of custom calving heifers for folks. ya know this reminds of chatter i've herd from time to time about folks saying - you send one of yours to me and i'll send one of mine to you and we'll just see about that. has anyone ever actually done that?
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Post by jayh on Feb 17, 2013 20:02:37 GMT -6
I’d be real interested in dropping off maybe a bred heifer or something like that, something that would be 3rd or 4th generation here that I’ve had some control over, probably more for my amusement than yours. It would be interesting to see how she would perform in the waaay different environment. The 2300 mile trip would be a bit of a ride though. i think maybe a visit with bltherf and lily would save the effort. seems like the pictures you posted were pretty similair to some of what they are trying. i'd probably just get accused of something. besides i've had my fill of custom calving heifers for folks. ya know this reminds of chatter i've herd from time to time about folks saying - you send one of yours to me and i'll send one of mine to you and we'll just see about that. has anyone ever actually done that? I am not paul but I wont ever try bringing cattle from the south to north. Been there done that. I would bring cattle from north to south. But then again they were black so ?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 20:03:55 GMT -6
passed this farmer on the way down to great falls today. he seemed to have gone out of his way to put in his two cents worth
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Post by rockmillsherefords on Feb 17, 2013 20:55:38 GMT -6
I’d be real interested in dropping off maybe a bred heifer or something like that, something that would be 3rd or 4th generation here that I’ve had some control over, probably more for my amusement than yours. It would be interesting to see how she would perform in the waaay different environment. The 2300 mile trip would be a bit of a ride though. i think maybe a visit with bltherf and lily would save the effort. seems like the pictures you posted were pretty similair to some of what they are trying. i'd probably just get accused of something. besides i've had my fill of custom calving heifers for folks. ya know this reminds of chatter i've herd from time to time about folks saying - you send one of yours to me and i'll send one of mine to you and we'll just see about that. has anyone ever actually done that? Yeah, kind of a crazy idea, be hard to work out the details. Would be interesting though to see how they would hold up.
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Post by rockmillsherefords on Feb 17, 2013 20:59:54 GMT -6
i think maybe a visit with bltherf and lily would save the effort. seems like the pictures you posted were pretty similair to some of what they are trying. i'd probably just get accused of something. besides i've had my fill of custom calving heifers for folks. ya know this reminds of chatter i've herd from time to time about folks saying - you send one of yours to me and i'll send one of mine to you and we'll just see about that. has anyone ever actually done that? I am not paul but I wont ever try bringing cattle from the south to north. Been there done that. I would bring cattle from north to south. But then again they were black so ? That would be the point of doing it, really test the genetics.
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Post by George on Feb 18, 2013 9:46:04 GMT -6
ya know this reminds of chatter i've herd from time to time about folks saying - you send one of yours to me and i'll send one of mine to you and we'll just see about that. has anyone ever actually done that? I remember it happening occasionally with heifers in the 60s among the group of Anxiety 4th breeders down here. It was not that uncommon for them to swap 1/2 interest in their home-raised herd bulls with each other.
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Post by jayh on Feb 18, 2013 18:59:42 GMT -6
I dont think very many animals will do well here unless they are raised here. Reason being is the fescue. Most just melt and fall apart.
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Post by jayh on Feb 18, 2013 19:05:43 GMT -6
Would be very interesting to see Harley's, Pauls,Ace's, Ken's, Glenn's, Dewall and a few other members here cattle all put some where here it this dirty fescue and see how they perform.
Like Paul said very interesting.
Would bet most would fall apart.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2013 19:22:24 GMT -6
Would be very interesting to see Harley's, Pauls,Ace's, Ken's, Glenn's, Dewall and a few other members here cattle all put some where here it this dirty fescue and see how they perform. Like Paul said very interesting. Would bet most would fall apart. I agree. The cattle produced out west and up north normally take 3 years to adjust to ky 31 fesue, and some don't survive. I can understand the value of horns is areas that have large predators and I have seen how horned cattle boss polled cattle around. Saying that I can see how a polled cow would have a hard time competing with a horned cow on getting the best food.
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Post by timbernt on Feb 18, 2013 19:23:31 GMT -6
No reason to bet. Most do. Gets expensive to find those that don't. I have found you can't get so much invested that you can't walk away from those that don't work or it gets even more expensive.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2013 19:30:44 GMT -6
so what's the story around gallatin, mo for fescue?
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Post by jayh on Feb 18, 2013 19:31:49 GMT -6
Would be very interesting to see Harley's, Pauls,Ace's, Ken's, Glenn's, Dewall and a few other members here cattle all put some where here it this dirty fescue and see how they perform. Like Paul said very interesting. Would bet most would fall apart. I agree. The cattle produced out west and up north normally take 3 years to adjust to ky 31 fesue, and some don't survive. I can understand the value of horns is areas that have large predators and I have seen how horned cattle boss polled cattle around. Saying that I can see how a polled cow would have a hard time competing with a horned cow on getting the best food. Yea I never gave the horn polled thing a thought. I do see how the horned cows use those horns to get what they want LOL.
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Post by jayh on Feb 18, 2013 19:36:15 GMT -6
so what's the story around gallatin, mo for fescue? Why thinking of packing up and becoming the pricipal gallatin.k12.mo.us/
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2013 19:42:18 GMT -6
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Post by rockmillsherefords on Feb 19, 2013 18:40:39 GMT -6
Would be very interesting to see Harley's, Pauls,Ace's, Ken's, Glenn's, Dewall and a few other members here cattle all put some where here it this dirty fescue and see how they perform. Like Paul said very interesting. Would bet most would fall apart. Mine are on K31 fescue Jay.
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Post by jayh on Feb 19, 2013 19:55:50 GMT -6
Would be very interesting to see Harley's, Pauls,Ace's, Ken's, Glenn's, Dewall and a few other members here cattle all put some where here it this dirty fescue and see how they perform. Like Paul said very interesting. Would bet most would fall apart. Mine are on K31 fescue Jay. Paul how hot are your pastures? I know mine were very hot. I have since been adding clover in with it and it seems to really help out. I now for a few years I would lose some tails and have alway had foot problems from fescue until this last yr. I know if they arent very hot then they do ok on it. You get some with a high amount of endophyte and you have problems. It can be managed but not prevented.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 21:13:58 GMT -6
It can be prevented but it is expensive. My dad seeded down a bottom that had been row cropped back in the late 40s. That was the most productive pasture and we had and no problems with the endophyte when the cows were pulled off in the fall. A couple of cousins that rented the place decided to winter cows in that bottom while they spent the mornings drinking coffee in town. They shipped about 60 cows missing hooves and tails. After I moved back we killed the fescue and notilled corn and soybeans for a few years and then I seeded it back to a mix of native grass. That bottom now produces half my hay crop.
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Post by nicky on Feb 20, 2013 20:54:32 GMT -6
It's so interesting what different problems each part of the country has. I'm quite sure it would take several years for most cows to adapt to here, if they could. And apparently that is true of most places. We all think we have it hard
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Post by rockmillsherefords on Feb 21, 2013 20:54:12 GMT -6
Mine are on K31 fescue Jay. Paul how hot are your pastures? I know mine were very hot. I have since been adding clover in with it and it seems to really help out. I now for a few years I would lose some tails and have alway had foot problems from fescue until this last yr. I know if they arent very hot then they do ok on it. You get some with a high amount of endophyte and you have problems. It can be managed but not prevented. Not that hot, get some volunteer white clover and a little orchard grass plus the broom sage, try to buy something other than fescue for hay.
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Oct 25, 2014 8:35:53 GMT -6
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Post by oldduffer on Oct 27, 2014 10:28:49 GMT -6
If you raise Polled Herefords or are thinking of using some Polled blood, do yourself a favor. Skip Denver and go to Fertile MN to see the herd of Polled Herefords Les has built. I do not raise polled cattle but in my opinion these will work.
"I may not be right..................................................................but I'm dam sure!!!!!!"
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Oct 27, 2014 10:38:27 GMT -6
If you raise Polled Herefords or are thinking of using some Polled blood, do yourself a favor. Skip Denver and go to Fertile MN to see the herd of Polled Herefords Les has built. I do not raise polled cattle but in my opinion these will work. "I may not be right..................................................................but I'm dam sure!!!!!!" Les?
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sonny
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Post by sonny on Oct 27, 2014 11:29:43 GMT -6
Good bye!
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