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Post by George on Jan 31, 2012 17:02:37 GMT -6
I've got some horned heifers that I would like to get guaranteed polled calves from. I'm planning on calving them right at 2 years old, so the bull also needs to be a "calving ease" bull.
Suggestions?
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AMC
Fresh Calf
Posts: 55
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Post by AMC on Jan 31, 2012 17:51:02 GMT -6
KJ HVH 33N Redeem 485 ET
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Post by George on Jan 31, 2012 19:32:40 GMT -6
Thanks! I knew that I had to be overlooking at least one bull that I need to consider. Everything I had on my short list was heterozygous polled. Any others?
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Post by herfdog on Jan 31, 2012 20:24:11 GMT -6
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Post by herfdog on Jan 31, 2012 20:27:32 GMT -6
Thanks! I knew that I had to be overlooking at least one bull that I need to consider. Everything I had on my short list was heterozygous polled. Any others? LCG MASTER BENNETT 19W
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Post by George on Jan 31, 2012 21:57:17 GMT -6
Redeem's BW EPDs are OK with me. +3.0 BW with only a little negative CE number should work in my environment and management style. I just didn't want to use a bull like Reload, etc on heifers. But I was actually considering using Reload's sire, Wideload - then I backed down in favor of some easier-calving polled bulls mainly because of the 19D that's in Wideload's pedigree. I'm just not much of a 19D fan. My only reservation is that Redeem's pedigree doesn't do much for my program. Except for a tinge of 20X and King Ten, he's almost a total outcross for me. But he sure had a great group of calves in that dispersion sale. And I'm probably going to be looking at selling most of these calves anyway. Right now, I'm looking at using Global on the first ones, but I'll run out of his semen before I get them all bred. Now, once you get that bull of yours proven, I'd sure consider using him for this purpose. Like I said, I like him!
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Post by herefordjock on Feb 1, 2012 12:30:21 GMT -6
Are you looking for more k10? I have a polled k10 son that is calving ease 42921743 , no he's not proven yet but i bred him to 65 cows spring and fall, comm and reg, as a short two year old and have been nothing but impressed! Seemed to take bw out of everything and short gestation as well
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Post by hoekland on Feb 1, 2012 13:03:49 GMT -6
Show us the bull and some offspring, please!
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Post by cowtex on Feb 1, 2012 16:04:53 GMT -6
I've got some horned heifers that I would like to get guaranteed polled calves from. I'm planning on calving them right at 2 years old, so the bull also needs to be a "calving ease" We got 1 horned bull calf and 2 or 3 scurred calves using 719 T on 70 horn cows and 1st calf horned heifers last Spring, with zero calving problems. Suggestions?
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Post by George on Feb 1, 2012 17:18:11 GMT -6
We got 1 horned bull calf and 2 or 3 scurred calves using 719 T on 70 horn cows and 1st calf horned heifers last Spring, with zero calving problems. That's really good to hear, Jim, and that solves my problem since I have some 719 T semen already on hand --- But! When I did a search on the AHA web-site it shows 10 of those calves as being horned. I first figured having 19 odd horned calves out of about 650 reported would have meant that he was homozygous polled and the error was human in registering the calves - but when those 10 all showed up in your calf crop, it made me wonder - and second guess whether he was homozygous polled or not.
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Post by cowtex on Feb 1, 2012 20:49:16 GMT -6
Well George I guess I should have checked a little closer if that is the case. I did call Ron my ranch manager right before I posted a reply and he told me that we only had 1 horned bull calf and 2 or 3 scurred out of our horned cows.
If that's the case I apologize for putting false information on the board. I knew you had 719 T semen and that was the only reason I called him to see what we had last Spring.
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Post by George on Feb 1, 2012 22:39:11 GMT -6
Well George I guess I should have checked a little closer if that is the case. I did call Ron my ranch manager right before I posted a reply and he told me that we only had 1 horned bull calf and 2 or 3 scurred out of our horned cows. If that's the case I apologize for putting false information on the board. I knew you had 719 T semen and that was the only reason I called him to see what we had last Spring. No, Jim, I figure Ron's recollection is better than what those registration papers show. When a bull has 650+ calves and only 19 of them are registered as horned, I'm going to bet that those are human errors in submitting the registrations, especially after hearing what Ron said. Either the 719T bull is homozygous polled, or he's only been bred to mostly homozygous polled cows before your calf crop. If there was actually a horned 719T calf at all in your calves, I'd be testing that calf for parentage - with that kind of evidence.
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Post by cowtex on Feb 1, 2012 23:06:04 GMT -6
Ron said we probably needed to check the one horned bull calf since he was real close to the cleanup bull that was horned.
We are a little different than most operations since we sell a lot of show heifers as well as bulls, both horned and polled. I may be wrong but I think we get a little more push with the crossing of polled and horned genetics.
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Post by hoekland on Feb 2, 2012 3:39:20 GMT -6
I agree with George, the numbers simply don't add up, if he was used on that many horned cows about 50% of the resulting offspring would have been horned if he was heterozygous polled.
With only one horned calf (even if it was 19) its either a registration error or big scurs was judged to be horns. Scurs come in all shapes and sizes and some even grow to be attached with age.
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Post by cowtex on Feb 2, 2012 13:54:48 GMT -6
Now you got me scratching my head. Like I said before it makes no difference to us one way or another. We are looking for quality since we sell both polled and horned. But since this has come up I would like to find out what we have.
Will get back to you.
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Post by cowtex on Feb 2, 2012 16:05:44 GMT -6
George, I am sure glad you started this thread. You have probably saved us some headaches down the road.
We have gone back through the AHA website and found the mislabeled reg. numbers that they have down as horned. After our sale this Fall we had to correct about 12 heifer calves that the computer had mis labeled as horned. Since we haven't started marketing our Spring bulls yet we had not paid any attention to what the AHA had down for them in the computer.
Ron still stands firm that we only had 1 horned 719T calf out of 70 horned cows that had 719T calves. And after all of this he is going to send in the hair to make sure he is a 719T son.
Just goes to show that you should be checking out what the assoc. is doing with your registrations.
Craig Huffines spoke to the Texas Hereford Assoc. in Fort Worth Saturday, and apologized for all the problems that has been going on with their new computer system that they just installed last fall.
I think life was a whole lot less confusing before the all mighty computer took over.
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Post by Glenn on Feb 2, 2012 16:43:45 GMT -6
I am far removed from the Polled Hereford world, but isn't there a DNA test for Homozygous polled trait? Seems like with a bull that is AI and widely used like 719T that that test would have already been done. Or should be done.
I would think if he were Homozygous polled that would be a huge selling point on the semen?
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Post by cowtex on Feb 2, 2012 16:52:22 GMT -6
Good point on the DNA testing. I will check with Genex. I know they have DNA tested him just never had an issue come up about the Homozygous part.
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Post by bookcliff on Feb 2, 2012 17:24:43 GMT -6
for what it's worth, my genex rep says 719T will take the racks off, based on what the guys he's sold semen to have said. I will find out in a couple of weeks when they start calving. bred 20 heifers to him, 10 to 242 and 10 to 3027. will make a real interesting comparison come weaning time. (cleanup to a scurred doublebred Acheiver X Legend X Britisher son that was our best growsafe & carcass bull out of last years calf crop)
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Post by herfdog on Feb 2, 2012 17:52:05 GMT -6
Igenity has a horn/polled test. Going off memory witch isn't that good it is $30 for the basic DNA profile and $50 for the horn/polled test.
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Post by George on Feb 2, 2012 18:53:38 GMT -6
George, I am sure glad you started this thread. You have probably saved us some headaches down the road. We have gone back through the AHA website and found the mislabeled reg. numbers that they have down as horned. After our sale this Fall we had to correct about 12 heifer calves that the computer had mis labeled as horned. Since we haven't started marketing our Spring bulls yet we had not paid any attention to what the AHA had down for them in the computer. Ron still stands firm that we only had 1 horned 719T calf out of 70 horned cows that had 719T calves. And after all of this he is going to send in the hair to make sure he is a 719T son. Just goes to show that you should be checking out what the assoc. is doing with your registrations. Craig Huffines spoke to the Texas Hereford Assoc. in Fort Worth Saturday, and apologized for all the problems that has been going on with their new computer system that they just installed last fall. I think life was a whole lot less confusing before the all mighty computer took over.Well, Jim, there's always been errors made in registering cattle - some on purpose, but most due to neglect, oversight, and human error. And until 100% of the cattle are DNA tested there will always be some errors. I keep referring back to that quote in L.P McCann's book - "Battle of the Bull Runts": Assuming that is true, there's probably very few registered Hereford cattle whose pedigrees are 100% correct all the way back to their imported ancestors. The problem in this particular case is that I'm sure there's others, like me, that want to use a Hereford bull that's a 100% dehorner. And I do believe that 719T fits that description. But if a person does a search on the AHA web-site and they find those calves registered as horned, it would put doubt in their minds, particularly if they weren't really familiar with how the horned/polled gene works and could see that the percentages don't add up to the probabilities.
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Post by George on Feb 2, 2012 19:24:35 GMT -6
Craig Huffines spoke to the Texas Hereford Assoc. in Fort Worth Saturday, and apologized for all the problems that has been going on with their new computer system that they just installed last fall. There's been parts of some pedigrees that have completely disappeared, like the entire bottomside of the dam of your former donor cow, Burgundy, has disappeared since you sold her: www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=3E3F292A&2=2434&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5A5D5C582220252E25&9=535359If you looked at that pedigree online, it sure wouldn't do much to instill confidence! ;D Perhaps I'm the only one who looks at and researches all this stuff?
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Post by mrvictordomino on Feb 2, 2012 20:13:10 GMT -6
Craig Huffines spoke to the Texas Hereford Assoc. in Fort Worth Saturday, and apologized for all the problems that has been going on with their new computer system that they just installed last fall. There's been parts of some pedigrees that have completely disappeared, like the entire bottomside of the dam of your former donor cow, Burgundy, has disappeared since you sold her: www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=3E3F292A&2=2434&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5A5D5C582220252E25&9=535359If you looked at that pedigree online, it sure wouldn't do much to instill confidence! ;D Perhaps I'm the only one who looks at and researches all this stuff? George, I'm sure there are others who do some research, but you are pretty good at finding "stuff". I apologize for my ignorance, but what would constitute an animal to lose part of a pedigree?? Is the individual no longer registered? Are any progeny not eligible for registration?
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Post by George on Feb 3, 2012 5:44:18 GMT -6
George, I'm sure there are others who do some research, but you are pretty good at finding "stuff". I apologize for my ignorance, but what would constitute an animal to lose part of a pedigree?? Is the individual no longer registered? Are any progeny not eligible for registration? Danny, I'm sure that is just a glitch in the AHA program. The rest of that pedigree was on the AHA web-site before Jim's sale. Since then it disappeared, probably due to these "updates". If you go to the Canadian website, you can see her dam's pedigree in its entirety: abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=2021292A&2=232F50&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=59585A272520242121&9=5A515B27But a lot more of the Canadian bred cattle that were sold into the US have also "lost" parts of their pedigree in the last year. I think there should be something done about this - as there are so many folks that don't know how/where to look further when that happens to them. CT occasionally got a post from someone expressing concerns about an animal's purity when their pedigrees didn't fully show for several generations. I remember one particular post concerning Pure Gold, where the person who was expressing concern didn't know that the animal back in Pure Gold's pedigree was Canadian bred. And that problem is worse now, since a lot of the more recent imports have had their pedigrees "purged" for some reason.
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