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Post by soherf on Jan 19, 2021 18:45:42 GMT -6
I hope you guys go and watch the Supreme Drives that were from the Cattleman's Congress 2021 show. Herefords swept both the heifer and bull drives! Horned heifer and a polled bull, both fabulous examples of Herefords. I was honored to watch it happen live and it nearly brought me to tears. Hereford proud! www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_qBL6oghjo |
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Post by timbernt on Jan 19, 2021 18:54:47 GMT -6
Who cares?
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Post by Glenn on Jan 19, 2021 19:53:06 GMT -6
Not me. Nothing could be further removed from the real world than the dog and pony show. |
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Post by soherf on Jan 20, 2021 7:19:59 GMT -6
In a year that has shown such division I'm glad to have something positive to stand behind.
Being happy seeing our breed excel is something we should all unite around.
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Post by timbernt on Jan 20, 2021 8:46:23 GMT -6
Excelling is topping the feeder calf markets and getting a premium for our fat cattle. What you posted is a bunch of sillies pretending to count.
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Post by soherf on Jan 20, 2021 13:43:14 GMT -6
Excelling is topping the feeder calf markets and getting a premium for our fat cattle. What you posted is a bunch of sillies pretending to count. If that's what matters to you then go out and do the things it takes to accomplish your goals. However, those are not everyone's goals and any time our breed is successful we should all be happy. |
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Post by timbernt on Jan 20, 2021 14:12:59 GMT -6
I do not need anyone's encouragement to pursue my goals; I have been focused on making the best market oriented Herefords I can since I was 12 and could afford my first cow. For 52 years I have watched this breed pander to the fluff and show of the hobbyists. My state of Missouri is among the worst. As the AHA focuses on these irrelevant shows, the breed has become more and more irrelevant to the real world. Tell me what the market share of Herefords has done in the last 52 years
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Post by jjbcattleco on Jan 23, 2021 9:30:21 GMT -6
Last time I check the business breed still has shows too...
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Post by timbernt on Jan 23, 2021 10:52:37 GMT -6
Visit with a serious Angus breeder and get their opinion of the show fluff. The market position Angus have today is not because of their beauty contests. It is because they had a nucleus of stubborn, old fashioned cattlemen producing real world cattle the market wanted.
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Post by lcc on Jan 25, 2021 6:46:26 GMT -6
Visit with a serious Angus breeder and get their opinion of the show fluff. The market position Angus have today is not because of their beauty contests. It is because they had a nucleus of stubborn, old fashioned cattlemen producing real world cattle the market wanted. We must remember history differently. Their position is because of a bullshit marketing ploy that falsely portrayed black hide as the greatest predictor of carcass traits. As for the shows, why the hostility? If that's not in your wheel house, fine. But the attitude that comes with it, is well, distasteful. |
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Post by cflory on Jan 25, 2021 12:19:02 GMT -6
For me the hostility is because the show ring was the final nail in the coffin for the Hereford breed in terms of being of any use to the beef industry. The frame race started it and the show ring has kept it moving in the wrong direction for too long.
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Post by timbernt on Jan 25, 2021 21:27:04 GMT -6
What I find distasteful is a breed that faces an existential threat spending the majority of its resources on beauty pageants. Take off your rose colored glasses and go to a salebarn. Call HRC feedlot where the Hereford feedout is being held and ask what premiums are paid for Hereford fats. Come back and tell me where is the demand for Hereford genetics in the real world. Then tell me those pens of all black cattle at HRC, or R lazy K, or Footes are there because those owners are brainwashed.
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Post by lcc on Jan 27, 2021 7:27:36 GMT -6
What I find distasteful is a breed that faces an existential threat spending the majority of its resources on beauty pageants. Take off your rose colored glasses and go to a salebarn. Call HRC feedlot where the Hereford feedout is being held and ask what premiums are paid for Hereford fats. Come back and tell me where is the demand for Hereford genetics in the real world. Then tell me those pens of all black cattle at HRC, or R lazy K, or Footes are there because those owners are brainwashed. Don't misinterpret me -- the consequence of their 'bullshit marketing ploy' is very real. I'm just saying that you bashing every single person that puts a halter on an animal is not what is going to fix it. |
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Post by timbernt on Jan 27, 2021 21:43:49 GMT -6
My animosity toward the show ring is because the tail is wagging the dog. All food animal veterinarians (myself included) donate a lot of time to young people in 4H and FFA with their show projects. However, the Hereford breed has become so hobby farm and show oriented that it has lost its focus and value to commercial agriculture. I see that every week. Today I saw one straight Hereford feeder and she was heavily discounted. If the breed continues to not have value to the commercial market, to me it no longer has value as a breed. The haltered cattle might be recreational, but should not be the focus of the breed as they are now. I am as sick of the "black is better" as anyone, but unless Hereford breeders produce a competitive product the discount will increase until there is no market for a Hereford feeder.
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Post by soherf on Jan 28, 2021 12:34:32 GMT -6
Around these parts the sale buyers want a black hide with a white face because they know those cattle will perform at the feedlot. They also know they are not some Corrientes cross calves that will fail to beef up. This is why I think we should embrace any breed utilizing Hereford genetics as a way to hold on to our importance in the market. The Black Hereford breed took our cattle and then added just enough Angus to use quality Hereford genetics but wrap it in a black hide. They are benefiting from the superiority of Herefords while getting to utilize the CAB marketing without having to pay for it. Beat them at their own game and laugh all the way to the bank! I personally think it's a brilliant strategy and it gives the buyers what they want, which is smart if you are in the business of selling things. The red baldy program is another that utilizes the Red Angus cattle crossed with Herefords for arguably the most maternal cows you could dream of designing. It would be wise to help prop up these types of breeding programs as they need our cattle as seed stock. Value added programs here pay really well regardless of the color, I would think you'd want those types of programs to flourish as they help bring more producers back to their Vet for guidance and direction.
Answers to problems are what is needed to move forward, not the guy at the back of the meeting grumbling about every suggestion made. Be the problem solver, these are the people that move mountains.
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Post by strojanherefords on Jan 29, 2021 1:10:15 GMT -6
The show ring provides a fantasy, teaches conformity of thought and the need for external validation when independent thinking, self confidence and honesty are the keys to success. Ferrington Carpenter and JR Simplot didn’t spend their youths with a curry comb in hand.
We don’t need anymore pie in the sky ideas that are incapable of working for us. Holly if someone bought one of your mini bulls to make baldies would those calves be eligible for the premium red baldy program? If not, why are you touting it?
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Post by soherf on Jan 29, 2021 14:51:31 GMT -6
Yes, if they met the requirements.
If Herefords would reduce frame score, reduce birth weights and focus on carcass quality they would get the premiums you desire. This came from an industry expert last night that had to fight to get Hereford bulls listed in one of their breeding formulations which this large research institute touts as having lots of "integrity." The board fought him and these were their points of push back.
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Post by timbernt on Jan 29, 2021 18:53:48 GMT -6
It is this disconnect by "breed leaders" that made me realize several years ago that it is hopeless to "become involved". Holly, you and your cadre are not looking for me to have input. You are looking to reprogram me to follow your failed programs. I sold 8 bulls today. Two to a commercial man running 600 cows a lot closer to you than me. None of these guys worries about birth weight, they worry about more growth and marketability. Wednesday PM an order buyer told me about a group of steers I sold that he bought a few months ago. Killed last week. 1/3 were yield 2, prime. Spend some time in the real world, try remember that Fantasia was a movie, not reality.
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Post by fpherf on Jan 29, 2021 20:01:47 GMT -6
Good post timbernt. In my view, it doesn't do any good to tell the customers what they should want. Better to let them tell you what they want . . . and then breed for it. Our family has had the same customer base for 40 years. These are commercial cattle people who want growthy, masculine bulls. I've yet to have a customer ask me if we had anything a little smaller. My customers don't give a rip about EPDs and they are extremely skeptical of breeders who show their cattle. The three bulls we sold today went to commercial breeders (Angus based herds); these people have no interest in how many banner's we've won (which is precisely none); they want me to show them the big, rugged bulls with big nuts, and then talk price.
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Post by soherf on Jan 30, 2021 10:09:44 GMT -6
It is this disconnect by "breed leaders" that made me realize several years ago that it is hopeless to "become involved". Holly, you and your cadre are not looking for me to have input. You are looking to reprogram me to follow your failed programs. I sold 8 bulls today. Two to a commercial man running 600 cows a lot closer to you than me. None of these guys worries about birth weight, they worry about more growth and marketability. Wednesday PM an order buyer told me about a group of steers I sold that he bought a few months ago. Killed last week. 1/3 were yield 2, prime. Spend some time in the real world, try remember that Fantasia was a movie, not reality. With that kind of track record you should be topping the sale barn. |
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Post by soherf on Jan 30, 2021 10:10:37 GMT -6
Good post timbernt. In my view, it doesn't do any good to tell the customers what they should want. Better to let them tell you what they want . . . and then breed for it. Our family has had the same customer base for 40 years. These are commercial cattle people who want growthy, masculine bulls. I've yet to have a customer ask me if we had anything a little smaller. My customers don't give a rip about EPDs and they are extremely skeptical of breeders who show their cattle. The three bulls we sold today went to commercial breeders (Angus based herds); these people have no interest in how many banner's we've won (which is precisely none); they want me to show them the big, rugged bulls with big nuts, and then talk price. Giving the buyer what they want has been a constant theme of mine, so we agree. |
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Post by strojanherefords on Jan 30, 2021 18:31:10 GMT -6
Yes, if they met the requirements. If Herefords would reduce frame score, reduce birth weights and focus on carcass quality they would get the premiums you desire. This came from an industry expert last night that had to fight to get Hereford bulls listed in one of their breeding formulations which this large research institute touts as having lots of "integrity." The board fought him and these were their points of push back. Holly have you read the requirements for the premium red baldy program? Since the bull your advertising don't have index values in the top half of the breed, their calves are ineligible for the program. I struggle to see why you are so attached to Kansas City. |
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Post by soherf on Feb 1, 2021 10:12:35 GMT -6
Yes, if they met the requirements. If Herefords would reduce frame score, reduce birth weights and focus on carcass quality they would get the premiums you desire. This came from an industry expert last night that had to fight to get Hereford bulls listed in one of their breeding formulations which this large research institute touts as having lots of "integrity." The board fought him and these were their points of push back. Holly have you read the requirements for the premium red baldy program? Since the bull your advertising don't have index values in the top half of the breed, their calves are ineligible for the program. I struggle to see why you are so attached to Kansas City. I'm not sure you saw the first sentence of my response. When you say "the bull" which one are you speaking of since I have more than one. Funny that you think I can't support something I don't participate in (take sports as an example)...THAT'S WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR ARGUMENT. Support Herefords of all sizes and all purposes. We are stronger together helping each other move forward and grab our market share because if we don't another breed will. |
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Post by elkwc on Feb 1, 2021 17:58:31 GMT -6
Yes, if they met the requirements. If Herefords would reduce frame score, reduce birth weights and focus on carcass quality they would get the premiums you desire. This came from an industry expert last night that had to fight to get Hereford bulls listed in one of their breeding formulations which this large research institute touts as having lots of "integrity." The board fought him and these were their points of push back. Not sure who this industry expert is as this isn't what the commercial breeder, feeder or packer wants. The frame size and mature weight of many polled herefords is less than desired by the commercial breeder, feeder & packer. And low BW's is why many of us are looking for alternatives to the avg Angus. For mature I desire a BW 80 or above and so do most commercial breeders I talk too. Maybe you should ask a commercial breeder who buys the bulls rather than your so called industry expert. |
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Post by elkwc on Feb 1, 2021 18:04:31 GMT -6
I know of a leading Hereford breeder who said after last year he might never return to Denver. I have talked to a few friends who attended the Hereford show at the Congress. One is a long time PB Hereford breeder. Another runs over 600 hd of commercial cows and a few others. All said what they saw offered little if any value to the commercial breeder and far removed from what the real world desires.
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