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Post by btlrupert on Apr 6, 2016 20:04:27 GMT -6
Today the deep bodied Bulls brought the money. Some will call them belly draggers... Perhaps? Several large frame Simmentals were no sales.. Hereford, Red Angus sell tomorrow. Just information. Looks like the RFI index was where the money was.
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Post by btlrupert on Apr 7, 2016 18:59:16 GMT -6
Update.. Red Angus did well. Few no sales. South Devons did OK but many no sales. Top Hereford at $4k and around 6 to 8 no sales. Angus tomorrow but I'm flying out so won't know how that goes. I was surprised but a small crowd today and yesterday.
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Post by Glenn on Apr 7, 2016 19:07:48 GMT -6
Wow, I bet the feed bill at Midland would eat a good chunk of $4,000 up.....
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Post by btlrupert on Apr 7, 2016 19:10:03 GMT -6
I wanted to ask what the test cost were but did not have the guts.. I know in SC you are looking at $1200 which is including of sale cost..
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Post by erherf on Apr 9, 2016 20:01:59 GMT -6
Remember the days when Carpenter and Deschmaeker had the tops every year. Twenty years ago I would not of said this but I truly think Bull test are operated bassackwards. Instead pouring the feed to them they should be limited fed, that way the naturally easy doing cattle will rise to the top. The seedstock industry has turned into marketing rather genetic improvement. We spend entirely to much time looking at numbers and thinking we can create a better animal. If you kinda let them fend for themselves and know how to look at something that doesn't have 3/10s backfat the good cattle are a hell of a lot easier to find. As has often been stated here fat sells still does make it right.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 21:49:51 GMT -6
I'm not familar with the history with this bull test but for as much fuss some make here about folks not disclosing actual weights there is quite a bit of info available on their Hereford bulls: www.midlandbulltest.com/wp-content/uploads/HE-FINAL.pdf along with scan data as well: www.midlandbulltest.com/wp-content/uploads/HEREFORD-No-Outs.pdf As a group the ADG was 2.73 and WDA 2.86 which I don't consider that as being pushed on feed without even seeing any photos of videos on those bulls yet as I type this post. Our state sale requires spring yearlings to have a WDA of 3.0 and fall yearlings 2.8 so based on that only 6 of the 15 Hereford bulls on test there would have even been allowed on our state "select" sale. I think sometimes our state sale tends to reward fat which is 1 of the reasons we haven't consigned in a long time because we'd have to really push the feed to make those requirements and like most of you here we want to see our cattle perform having to rough it a little bit. Just analyzing the scan data on the Midland Hereford bulls 6 of the bulls didn't even have an actual REA of 10 and the top bull was 13.1 which adjusted down to a 12.8 and the group as a whole had actual REA of 10.4 and adjusted at 10.6. Three of the 4 bulls we had in our sale pen last year has better actual REA scans than the top bull on that test and even the lowest REA of our group at 12.3 would have been 2nd best on that test. Just off the scan data alone I'm not worried about the fat on those bulls more than I am the natural thickness they are lacking on the scan data. I guess its all based on what one thinks "pushed on feed" means based on how you manage your operation and where you are located because not everyone can graze pasture year round. The further North you get your perspective changes because you can't make it through a winter in the North without putting out some feed. Our bulls get their BSE and scans this month but we ran them across the scale back in Feb. to see how they were doing since we seperated them off and put them in a dry lot with choice hay and a corn and oats ration of about 2% of their weight and their ADG over 71 days was 2.78 over the winter here which is a good steady gain rate without packing on excess fat. Actually would have liked to see them gain around 3 as a group but we've had a really weird winter with temps dipping up and down with extremes within 24 hours which messes with appetites when that happens. As long as a breeder is being upfront and honest on how they manage their cattle I think its more of a buyer problem than a seller problem when someone gets caught up in a bidding war and buys a bull that he thinks just because he paid a premium price means he will get premium results. |
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Post by erherf on Apr 10, 2016 7:00:44 GMT -6
Like I said we tend to get totally consumed in numbers and our rigid requirement that they have to meet this requirement or they are out. Whether it is actual or adjusted or an epd, birth weight or frame score. I grew up in a strictly commercial Hereford family. We selected our replacements with our eyes and certain type in mind like 1000s of other commercial outfits and a reputation was developed, in fact we topped the blacks on several occasions. We talk about producers fudging numbers or justifying there animals with numbers. I don't have my head in the sand I do look at numbers and there consistency through a pedigree. We aspire to produce good cattle and we have to be truly honest with ourselves the rest will fall into place.
Just my opinion but I don't consider 2% of body weight in corn and oats roughing it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 10:41:49 GMT -6
Me thinks I need to not hit the post button late at night without proof reading my random thoughts later. The context of roughing it I was meaning more of our cows who we don't feed a grain ration to. They graze pasture that has fescue to deal with until they have no more left in the fall or we get a snow before we set hay out. However with the calves after weaning I don't think you can convert dirt snow and mud into pounds here so yes we do feed. It's a controlled ration and not just putting out a self feeder so we scale back the ration as needed. I came across a dicussion on another board recently where people were talking about when to set creep out for calves and was amazed just how many guys were putting it out for calves not even 1 or 2 months old yet and didn't see a problem with that. That isn't exactly letting your cows do much work to be creeping that young.
Back to the numbers thing, I guess my point was it was nice to see actual data including the scan data as you don't always get that with some sales or if they do it's just adjusted numbers or not accurate. It's just 1 of many tools to use in selection but having actual scan data is sure going to tell you more on carcass traits than an epd will.
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Post by randy on Apr 10, 2016 12:36:27 GMT -6
I have to question why anyone would send a bull to a test that only had a limited number of bulls? Then you look at the bulls there and the next question is why on gods green earth would you send some of these anyway? It seems to me if you want to burn money it would be much easier with hundred dollar bills and a Bic lighter...
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Post by rockmillsherefords on Apr 10, 2016 20:51:25 GMT -6
I guess it's just me but a bull in a bull test or a sale catalog or a lot on a farm that's been well fed better have some fat on his butt, it would be the ones with no fat on them I would be worried about.
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Post by hoekland on Apr 11, 2016 13:07:59 GMT -6
I guess it's just me but a bull in a bull test or a sale catalog or a lot on a farm that's been well fed better have some fat on his butt, it would be the ones with no fat on them I would be worried about. You're a gentleman and a scholar! |
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Post by hrndherf on Apr 27, 2016 3:22:09 GMT -6
Update.. Red Angus did well. Few no sales. South Devons did OK but many no sales. Top Hereford at $4k and around 6 to 8 no sales. Angus tomorrow but I'm flying out so won't know how that goes. I was surprised but a small crowd today and yesterday. I haven't walked through the pens there in a couple years, but what I saw there in the past, 4000 was a good sale for a Hereford . Most those Herefords will get run through the ring at PAYS in the Grass Time all breed bull sale. If they bring much more than the cost at midland, they did good. |
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Post by rockmillsherefords on May 2, 2016 20:21:45 GMT -6
I guess it's just me but a bull in a bull test or a sale catalog or a lot on a farm that's been well fed better have some fat on his butt, it would be the ones with no fat on them I would be worried about. You're a gentleman and a scholar! Sometimes I wished I was a scholar of the breed, most times I'm glad I'm not  |
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Post by bookcliff on May 2, 2016 20:49:05 GMT -6
Update.. Red Angus did well. Few no sales. South Devons did OK but many no sales. Top Hereford at $4k and around 6 to 8 no sales. Angus tomorrow but I'm flying out so won't know how that goes. I was surprised but a small crowd today and yesterday. I haven't walked through the pens there in a couple years, but what I saw there in the past, 4000 was a good sale for a Hereford . Most those Herefords will get run through the ring at PAYS in the Grass Time all breed bull sale. If they bring much more than the cost at midland, they did good. yup its a far cry from back in the days when i used to go up there with dad when it was Charles, Ferry and that group thru later when I used to buy junior herd bull prospects from Marvin, Middle Fork and the like. |
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