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Post by timbernt on Sept 1, 2015 15:34:19 GMT -6
"We believe that it is a waste of time to do anything but test, select, and cull in the environment in which the animal is expected to perform. Any deviation from the natural environment is promotional hogwash and misleading. It follows that you are most likely to get the performance desired and expected if you buy from a herd that is run in an environment and under conditions most similar to your own operation."
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Post by postoak1 on Sept 1, 2015 16:15:11 GMT -6
Who dat be said dat?
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Post by mehf on Sept 1, 2015 18:40:22 GMT -6
Come on, Tim; 'fess up and share with all as to who made that statement.
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Post by btlrupert on Sept 1, 2015 19:18:57 GMT -6
Is it Jan Bonsma?
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Post by timbernt on Sept 1, 2015 21:05:24 GMT -6
Hilliard E. Miller, page 280 in the July, 1969, Hereford Journal.
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Post by btlrupert on Sept 1, 2015 21:08:29 GMT -6
Would love to see the article. Great comment and glad you posted. Also thanks for the answer .
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Post by bookcliff on Sept 2, 2015 18:41:38 GMT -6
"We believe that it is a waste of time to do anything but test, select, and cull in the environment in which the animal is expected to perform. Any deviation from the natural environment is promotional hogwash and misleading. It follows that you are most likely to get the performance desired and expected if you buy from a herd that is run in an environment and under conditions most similar to your own operation." oh now where would the purebred business be if you cut out all the creep, the corn silage, all the alfalfa they can eat, the wheat pasture on spring calvers, the protien tubs and lick tanks all summer, the chelated mineral year round. and that even extends to the the bearded no-feed guru of the mighty metropolis of Cheyenne Wells contrary to the myth he likes to perpetuate. fact of the matter is a majority of people in the seedstock business don't know the first damn thing about the real world of ranching much less profitablity within it, so Miller's dead-on balls accurate statement some 45 years ago are as foreign to them as a fine pinot or cask sherry are to me. |
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Post by fivestarherefords on Sept 2, 2015 19:53:12 GMT -6
"We believe that it is a waste of time to do anything but test, select, and cull in the environment in which the animal is expected to perform. Any deviation from the natural environment is promotional hogwash and misleading. It follows that you are most likely to get the performance desired and expected if you buy from a herd that is run in an environment and under conditions most similar to your own operation." oh now where would the purebred business be if you cut out all the creep, the corn silage, all the alfalfa they can eat, the wheat pasture on spring calvers, the protien tubs and lick tanks all summer, the chelated mineral year round. and that even extends to the the bearded no-feed guru of the mighty metropolis of Cheyenne Wells contrary to the myth he likes to perpetuate. fact of the matter is a majority of people in the seedstock business don't know the first damn thing about the real world of ranching much less profitablity within it, so Miller's dead-on balls accurate statement some 45 years ago are as foreign to them as a fine pinot or cask sherry are to me. This post makes it sound as if "real world cattle" live on sticks and dust balls while needing no supplementation, not even minerals. |
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Post by bookcliff on Sept 2, 2015 20:35:13 GMT -6
"We believe that it is a waste of time to do anything but test, select, and cull in the environment in which the animal is expected to perform. Any deviation from the natural environment is promotional hogwash and misleading. It follows that you are most likely to get the performance desired and expected if you buy from a herd that is run in an environment and under conditions most similar to your own operation." well I guess I tend to think this statment pretty much sums it up. but I guess I also need to make my previous post a little less "challenging" for some to understand............... a large majority of "purebred" breeders seem to readly adapt themselves and make excuses for grossly excessive use of feedstuffs in maintaining a cowherd that are not profitably substainable in a commercial setting where as a result they are not generally used to the extent that many seedstock programs do. consequently, the data presented on those given genetics (brought in from a genetic program with practices of substatially higher nutrtional management) and their ability to perform at certain level for a given trait indicated by that data is not generally a reliable predictor of what they will do once those genetics no longer have access to that considerably higher level of nutrition.. and that goes for everything....fertility, milk flow, fleshing ability, weaning weight, feedyard adg, dry matter conversions, and on and on ............... simply put, your comparing apples to oranges when you do that. |
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Post by lffarm on Sept 3, 2015 4:11:34 GMT -6
"We believe that it is a waste of time to do anything but test, select, and cull in the environment in which the animal is expected to perform. Any deviation from the natural environment is promotional hogwash and misleading. It follows that you are most likely to get the performance desired and expected if you buy from a herd that is run in an environment and under conditions most similar to your own operation." oh now where would the purebred business be if you cut out all the creep, the corn silage, all the alfalfa they can eat, the wheat pasture on spring calvers, the protien tubs and lick tanks all summer, the chelated mineral year round. and that even extends to the the bearded no-feed guru of the mighty metropolis of Cheyenne Wells contrary to the myth he likes to perpetuate. fact of the matter is a majority of people in the seedstock business don't know the first damn thing about the real world of ranching much less profitablity within it, so Miller's dead-on balls accurate statement some 45 years ago are as foreign to them as a fine pinot or cask sherry are to me. I agree with you about the supplement feeding. I have had to send a few down the road that I bought becose they can't make it without help I don't want to work for my cows they should work for me. I do use mineral. copper deficiency is a problem around here. People ask what feed you using. I say I don't feed my cows. Not sure what they think but they do look at me funny. |
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Post by picketwire on Sept 3, 2015 9:09:13 GMT -6
oh now where would the purebred business be if you cut out all the creep, the corn silage, all the alfalfa they can eat, the wheat pasture on spring calvers, the protien tubs and lick tanks all summer, the chelated mineral year round. and that even extends to the the bearded no-feed guru of the mighty metropolis of Cheyenne Wells contrary to the myth he likes to perpetuate. fact of the matter is a majority of people in the seedstock business don't know the first damn thing about the real world of ranching much less profitablity within it, so Miller's dead-on balls accurate statement some 45 years ago are as foreign to them as a fine pinot or cask sherry are to me. This post makes it sound as if "real world cattle" live on sticks and dust balls while needing no supplementation, not even minerals. Some do and unfortunately, that mgmt scheme is as uneconomical as overfeeding from the buffet line. Now I think we all realize feed resources are different everywhere and different strokes for different folks and all that jazz I agree with and totally understand. I do, however, try to draw a distinct line between a balanced ration and overfeeding both protein and energy. When it comes to minerals, beef cows have the ability to tell us what they need, when they need it, IF we pay attention and offer it in a form with as little extra protein/energy as possible unless and until it's needed. I.e. winter needs vs summer. Hope that is a little clearer than mud!!  |
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Post by strojanherefords on Sept 11, 2015 17:11:30 GMT -6
As a baseline, Seedstock producers should manage their cattle as they would if they were trying to maximize profitability within commercial economics. But seedstock production is different than the commercial world, a producer selecting for fertility might breed all is heifer calves at 50% mature weight and take the ones that don't breed to a feedlot. But producer who has a market for bred heifers would spend the extra money to ensure they get bred.
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