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Post by hoekland on Oct 18, 2014 6:37:12 GMT -6
MARC did research some years ago where the finding was that fertility or reproduction was x times more important to profitibility than growth, for example, etc
Can anyone tell me where i can find the exact findings?
Also I read somewhere that the white face of a hereford was not only dominant, but also the only colour alelle a pure hereford has, anyone know where I can find that again?
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Post by bookcliff on Oct 18, 2014 7:46:29 GMT -6
I'll dig around thru my file cabinets. Dad always called up there and got any reports pretaining to Herefords each year and any others he was interested in and I did for too for quite a while . I'll dig around this weekend and I see what I can run across however not exactly sure if I even still have the stuff after a couple of housemoves over the years, I've culled out alot of stuff each time we moved.
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Oct 18, 2014 17:31:54 GMT -6
That fertility was x times more profitable than growth and carcass, I first learned about it from Bonsma lectures, I think in the 70's. You may have his study over there.
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Post by larso on Oct 20, 2014 15:07:22 GMT -6
Hoekland, Bonsma wrote a book called " A man must measure " have you ever seen a copy all heard about it ? It seems impossible to get a copy as it is out of print and no one has it in stock. I heard there is a breeder out here that has one but he hangs on to it like "no tomorrow" Just wondered whether you thought it is worth while pursuing it any further.
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Post by bookcliff on Oct 20, 2014 21:25:42 GMT -6
Hoekland, Bonsma wrote a book called " A man must measure " have you ever seen a copy all heard about it ? It seems impossible to get a copy as it is out of print and no one has it in stock. I heard there is a breeder out here that has one but he hangs on to it like "no tomorrow" Just wondered whether you thought it is worth while pursuing it any further. are you taking about his pamphlet that was published in the early 70's? I've got that... "Selecting Cattle for Efficient Production". |
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Post by larso on Oct 21, 2014 3:35:36 GMT -6
No I don't think so, but then again I might be wrong. I presume there are quite a few articles that have been published by him and I would love to acquire what ever still could available.
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Post by hoekland on Oct 22, 2014 13:40:28 GMT -6
Hoekland, Bonsma wrote a book called " A man must measure " have you ever seen a copy all heard about it ? It seems impossible to get a copy as it is out of print and no one has it in stock. I heard there is a breeder out here that has one but he hangs on to it like "no tomorrow" Just wondered whether you thought it is worth while pursuing it any further. I've got the book, but if I remember correctly it wasn't written by Dr Jan himself, it was compiled from his work much later. I stumbled on a book called Benchmark Papers of Bonsma (it was printed to commemorate his 80th birthday) in a second hand bookshop, bough it and when I got home I swa in the inner page it was a gift Bonsma himself gave to an old friend, with a handwritten note by Bonsma. Great find for me, but can't help but feeling sad for the stupid family member of the receiver of this gift who pawned it off to a second hand bookshop. It's not very difficult to find Bonsma's work here, I'll have a look what I can find and get back to you. |
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Post by rockmillsherefords on Oct 22, 2014 20:30:36 GMT -6
a link about the book link |
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Post by larso on Oct 23, 2014 4:50:28 GMT -6
The book ' a man must measure " was 1st published in 1983 in hard cover, according to Mr Google so hopefully there might be a copy out there some where, also a book on his lectures was auctioned by the American Red Angus society donated by an old breeder about the 14th of this month, so I'm very appreciative of any links or connections.
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Post by fivestarherefords on Oct 23, 2014 8:03:14 GMT -6
The book ' a man must measure " was 1st published in 1983 in hard cover, according to Mr Google so hopefully there might be a copy out there some where, also a book on his lectures was auctioned by the American Red Angus society donated by an old breeder about the 14th of this month, so I'm very appreciative of any links or connections. I hate when I start looking for something and can't find it. This is turning into a real wild goose chase. There doesn't appear to be a digital version anywhere and not a single copy for sale. The only possibility that I have found is the book is available in several university libraries with the nearest to me being Virginia Tech, Penn State and Morehead State. The lectures are available here or so it says. link |
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Post by Glenn on Oct 23, 2014 9:23:28 GMT -6
The Bonsma lectures are good. I think that is where I ordered mine. It is well worth the money.
Take home sentence (paraphrased as I am not at home)
"If you had only one method of selection, selecting for earliest shedding would be the best method to use."
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Post by shumakerherefords on Oct 23, 2014 13:34:33 GMT -6
The book ' a man must measure " was 1st published in 1983 in hard cover, according to Mr Google so hopefully there might be a copy out there some where, also a book on his lectures was auctioned by the American Red Angus society donated by an old breeder about the 14th of this month, so I'm very appreciative of any links or connections. I hate when I start looking for something and can't find it. This is turning into a real wild goose chase. There doesn't appear to be a digital version anywhere and not a single copy for sale. The only possibility that I have found is the book is available in several university libraries with the nearest to me being Virginia Tech, Penn State and Morehead State. The lectures are available here or so it says. linkGoogle Books has it listed books.google.com/books?id=bxQPAQAAMAAJ&q=man+must+measure&dq=man+must+measure&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Z1ZJVIvkL4KlyATY9oCoBg&ved=0CCAQ6wEwAA However I have not found a way to browse it. I can only search for words?  |
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Post by strojanherefords on Oct 28, 2014 16:41:54 GMT -6
Getting back to the original question, we can separate "fertility" into two separate traits: services per calf and productive life. For me the difference between a cow getting bred on her first service versus her second is the difference between marketing a 270 day old calf versus a 290 day old calf. That is probably a difference of 50 or 60 pounds at weaning. So for each day earlier a cow calves it is roughly the equivalent of two and a half pounds (one kilo for those lost to the metric system) of adjusted weaning weight.
In a prior post, I wrote about why I do not believe in culling cows before the end of their productive life. Not only do I believe that culling a cow early is a poor financial decision but it also reduces the genetic base of the cowherd and by extension the breed. Remember, we lack the ability to create new genes, we only improve by removing genes. Breeding cattle is like sculpting, the sculpture already exists and it our job to extract the sculpture from the marble. To turn generations quickly is like using a power tool the general shape will be reached quickly but it is easy to knock too much off. In the end improving slow and steady will take longer but produce a better result.
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Post by Carlos (frmaiz) on Oct 28, 2014 17:29:50 GMT -6
"Breed the best to the best" was an old english breeder's adage.
But what is best? And on top of that It takes a long time to identify those best individuals, there is no question about it. So to make solid genetic progress its necesary to have time and patience.
I have a lifetime experience in corn breeding and have learned the hard way how difficult is to find the best parents and how difficult is to tame impatience.
And I believe breeding is much of an art, no matter how much science or money you put behind it.
It's raining here.
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