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Post by herfdog on Sept 29, 2014 7:46:03 GMT -6
Could some of you experienced cattlemen in great detail please describe what type of cattle the feeders and packers are looking for.
Thanks
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Post by timbernt on Sept 29, 2014 11:18:34 GMT -6
Just last week I had this discussion with the owner of the market I do the vet work at. He also runs about 1000 cows and owns part of a western Kansas feedyard where he is on the board. He is using a quite a few of my bulls and always looks for maximum performance. He wants one that will go on feed at 7 to 800 lbs, pen average gain of 4.2 to 4.4, convert 5:1 and feed for up to 150 to 165 days, killing at close to 1400. I was concerned my bulls did not make steers that grade well enough and he said they were fine. He feeds a quite a few cattle and performance and yield are more important financially to him than grade. He says 60% low choice is about right.
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Post by elkwc on Sept 29, 2014 17:19:17 GMT -6
Just last week I had this discussion with the owner of the market I do the vet work at. He also runs about 1000 cows and owns part of a western Kansas feedyard where he is on the board. He is using a quite a few of my bulls and always looks for maximum performance. He wants one that will go on feed at 7 to 800 lbs, pen average gain of 4.2 to 4.4, convert 5:1 and feed for up to 150 to 165 days, killing at close to 1400. I was concerned my bulls did not make steers that grade well enough and he said they were fine. He feeds a quite a few cattle and performance and yield are more important financially to him than grade. He says 60% low choice is about right. The statements by the market owner you mentioned are very similar to what those I talk to tell me. I've been told several times they need to finish at 1350 or above in the current market and gain cost effectively and yield well. The same as the performance yield your source mentioned. The feedlot manager of a larger (over 50,000) head lot I talked to stated that the packer wants a large percentage to grade choice. So he tries to achieve that also. He says it makes a pen easier to sell. From my experience each person will have a little different type they feel works best for them. Most of the feeders and feedlot owners I know want one that has some stretch and frame to them. They don't want the overgrown toads(the compact, short legged show type). They want some natural muscle to them and some compacity. Not the fed on fat some purebred breeders try to refer to as muscle when they are trying to sell a commercial man a bull. They don't care about skin color. Just drive through or by a large feedlot in this area and almost every pen has a mix of colors. The only constant you will find is the phenotype. You can tell certain owners pens by the type of cattle in them. The main change really from a good steer in the 70's is the mature size. They need a little more frame to attain the weight and do it efficiently. If a person takes the time to set at a competitive sale barn and watch a few thousand sell it doesn't take long to figure out what the feeder buyer prefers and what they are willing to pay top dollar for. As one feeder told me recently when talking about the extra large bone but light muscling of a certain breeders cattle. He said bone is cheap. He wants adequate bone but not the extra large bone especially when it comes with no or little muscling. Again this is just the feeders and feedlot managers I've talked too. |
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Post by larso on Sept 29, 2014 18:57:33 GMT -6
It is very interesting reading the above posts and what the American industry requires. I've just had Paul Strojam's parents say the night with us here and he also explained it to me and how it works for you over there. For us most of the cattle enter the feedlot at around 800-900lbs but looking to feed for only 70-90 days around that 1100lbs weight. Others do stay for longer but that would be more for specific markets. This probably explains why we look for a slightly different type of beast, but one thing for sure, the old Hereford can cover most requires.
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Post by bookcliff on Sept 29, 2014 19:30:16 GMT -6
as calf feds---on feed 45 or so days weaned off the cow, gain close to 4, convert close to 5 or under (dry),150-170 DOF, kill at 1400 or so (at least in todays market) go at least 60%CH, PAR over 1.0 preferably 1.1 or better on the rail, pen average under 3 for YG's with very little morbidity and no mortality.
at least that is what the feeders I know and the lot managers I deal with will tell you unless they drank the Angus Koolaid,then 10% prime and rest CH and don't give a damn about YG's.
oh and little ol' frame 4 steer ain't gionna gain that as a calf fed and he damn sure ain't giong be a YG 2 something at 1400 lbs.
yes Virginia, there is a big bad wolf....it's a little short framed short bodied steer with YG4 or 5 discount at $20/cwt combined with a crappy cost of gain because he don't got any growth and don't hang much retail yeild when he hits the end o' the line light and toad fat.
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Post by herfdog on Sept 29, 2014 20:21:29 GMT -6
I have wondered how the calves sell and feed out of commercial herds that run 1100-1200 pound mature cows. I would think that most would be smaller framed cows.
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Post by timbernt on Sept 29, 2014 21:11:42 GMT -6
A pretty good rule thumb is that a steer finishes at about the mature weight of the mother. It has probably been pretty obvious I don't like small cattle. If you have ever owned a pen that really needed to make money and they just wouldn't perform you will understand. I don't know how many times I had black heifers that gained 2 lbs/day on full feed. And wouldn't weigh 1000 lbs fat. Kinda makes you want to puke. And then the banker gets involved and you do puke. So when I am told how good the dinks are I get a bit of a chill.
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tff
Fresh Calf
Posts: 45 
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Post by tff on Sept 30, 2014 6:15:22 GMT -6
Bookcliff, What bulls or bloodlines have you used that are consistantly siring the type of cattle you mentioned? In your opinion, does the Olsen test do a good job identifying these type of bulls?
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Post by bookcliff on Sept 30, 2014 8:20:51 GMT -6
Bookcliff, What bulls or bloodlines have you used that are consistantly siring the type of cattle you mentioned? In your opinion, does the Olsen test do a good job identifying these type of bulls? everyone here knows I'm pretty much partical to FRC blood. however that isn't the point. it's really about more than just bloodlines because we've all seen bloodlines that in one program do something and in another don't. what it is about is the type of cattle regardless of bloodlines. I've bought grassed, wheat pastured and/or fed polls ,L1's, Canadians, FRC, and jsut about every combination of Herf bloodlines there are. someof each worked and some didn't in the feedyard and the packinghouse. wht does make the difference is the type thaose cattle are. are they low 5 to low 6 frame or not. do they actually have some muscle in them... I'm talking about natural width of top and carry that all teh way down past the stifle and into the hock, do they have some width of base to em OR are they some peaked assed dairy looking puke that is herford only in color and being brutally honest this is more often a problem with polled calves than in horned calves although I have seen it there as well. do they have adequate length of body or are they short coupled?are they deep bodied or shallow gutted wonders. are they balanced thru their fronts or are they one of these new "cool" looking choke fronted things. |
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Post by elkwc on Sept 30, 2014 11:38:55 GMT -6
Bookcliff, What bulls or bloodlines have you used that are consistantly siring the type of cattle you mentioned? In your opinion, does the Olsen test do a good job identifying these type of bulls? everyone here knows I'm pretty much partical to FRC blood. however that isn't the point. it's really about more than just bloodlines because we've all seen bloodlines that in one program do something and in another don't. what it is about is the type of cattle regardless of bloodlines. I've bought grassed, wheat pastured and/or fed polls ,L1's, Canadians, FRC, and jsut about every combination of Herf bloodlines there are. someof each worked and some didn't in the feedyard and the packinghouse. wht does make the difference is the type thaose cattle are. are they low 5 to low 6 frame or not. do they actually have some muscle in them... I'm talking about natural width of top and carry that all teh way down past the stifle and into the hock, do they have some width of base to em OR are they some peaked assed dairy looking puke that is herford only in color and being brutally honest this is more often a problem with polled calves than in horned calves although I have seen it there as well. do they have adequate length of body or are they short coupled?are they deep bodied or shallow gutted wonders. are they balanced thru their fronts or are they one of these new "cool" looking choke fronted things. TK very well stated. That is what I've been trying to say but you said it better. And your statements mirror what I've seen in my search for a polled bull and also what I've seen at the sales I've atteneded recently. Your statement about an animal being a peaked assed dairy looking puke reflects what I've seen in many of the polled cattle I've looked at. And when you know they gave top money(many times over $10,000.00) it makes you shake your head and think to yourself that they evidently don't have a clue what the feeder or packer wants. I've seen a lot more good to very good horned cattle than I have polled. |
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Post by strojanherefords on Oct 1, 2014 9:51:41 GMT -6
The type of cattle that work for the feeder and the packer is distinct from the type that works for making replacements. While I do not believe that we should abandon terminal performance, I do believe that the Herefords niche is producing replacement heifers.
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