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Post by Glenn on Apr 18, 2014 7:57:44 GMT -6
From an Angus site:
>>"People aren't registering the cattle for the pedigree. They are registering them for the epds. This is why the Association made you register them in order to get them."
Best statement of all these CEO/BOD discussions- and perhaps some of the cause of the rift. I obviously, like everyone else don't really know. But EPD's are the great equalizer. I don't have to buy an embryo transplant great-grand daughter of 'Ol'Bess' out of 'Big Boy' who sold for 6 figures 15 years ago. All I have to do is breed a cow with better EPD's for whatever traits I am interested in- and in almost every case that is not very hard to do.<<<
The highlighting was my emphasis of his post.
Amazing to me that someone can be so simple minded.
Years of all the publications and associations beating the EPD drums has turned cattle producers into "paint by number" breeders. No wonder the national cattle herd pretty much sucks!
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Post by Glenn on Apr 18, 2014 8:06:15 GMT -6
It's as if this guy heeded the words of the Jim Jones "Hurry, my children. Hurry."
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Post by elkwc on Apr 18, 2014 10:09:31 GMT -6
Very well stated Glenn. I just made a post on another thread about the EPD's and their real lack of value to a commercial breeder. Especially one who plans to retain ownership till slaughter. But from my recent experiences selecting a few new bulls I quickly figured out too many breeders are using numbers only. It makes me wonder if they are using numbers because of their lack of ability to select a good animal by visual methods. Too me numbers never should of been anything more that another tool to use. I read a recent article about a commercial Angus breeder in this area. He is selecting all of his replacements by the DNA testing. Said he was paying no attention to phenotype anymore. Any true cowman can tell you where that will lead a person.
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Post by elkwc on Apr 18, 2014 15:02:52 GMT -6
Another thing about the numbers is often they aren't using actual numbers. They use adjusted numbers, ect. Like a breeder told me. He calves his cows on wheat almost every year. Which can tend to increase calf weights. This was an Angus breeder. He stated he could adjust the BW's because of that but he has chose to list actual weights. I like for the breeders to list actual weights and and the date weighed. Ratios and adjusted numbers are nothing more than pencil whipping something so it looks good. The value of the numbers decreases when they do this in my opinion. I'm more likely to purchase from a breeder who lists actual weights. At least I know what the real facts are even if the numbers are not as good as one with the fabricated numbers.
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Post by bookcliff on Apr 19, 2014 11:23:42 GMT -6
it's amazing to me how many peopel don't understand that it don't matter how "good" they are on paper, if they are a wreck structurally especially on feet pastern and legs & proper hip length and slope of hooks to pins all else is trumped. if they can't breed em, can't cover the country to graze, have no longevity and can't calve easily none of the rest matters, they are really nothing better than a 1300 lbs version of yard art. As Dave Lahman has eluded to in the "points to ponder for the black hided crowd" many EPD's and indexes have been proven to be structured wrong for genetic advancement on the world of the commericla cow-calf man, the feedlot and the packer and it seems like all the "big rims" as Ace calls em can't see the forest for the treees so to speak because in my fat old pasture cowboy way of thinking they ain't the guy doin' it and seeing the cosequences and then having to figure out the mess. things that often on the drawing board or in the reasearch lab often have a way of coming uncorked once out in the real world.
EPD's which were meant to "save the industry" are now fast approaching the point where they are wrecking it, and the art of cow-savvy and stockmanship along with it.
let me put it another way, we ain't got EPD's for shedding hair down south or hair'ing up up north, EPD's for PAP, EPD's for teat size or udder balance (or at least on this one beyond heather's research) but we have all been fixing these traits for years and quite sucessfully I might add. same goes for feed effeciency for those of us who have been selecting for it. so.............how do we go about it, thru applied observation on some traits, with actual data from non-seedstock/acedemic markers AKA real world profit numbers like cost of gain, dry matter effeciency ect ect ect where no data means no data not genetic linkage thru some 1/2 brother mated to a dam outa some sire whose maternal grandam has a steer go thru the feedyard one time.
As Ken Stephens so apptly said one time about EPD's , just because my brother-in-laws uncle's daughters son plays the lead guitar in some high school garage band, don't make him the next George Strait
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